Epically horrific vehicles in the snow.

Worst was my 97 F150 shortbed pick up. No traction, even with weight in the bed and good winter tires. And the ABS was terrible.

Best all-around vehicle was my 1967 SAAB 96 with the V4. Never had a problem with winter tires on it. And with the full body pan would even slide up and over large drifts if I had enough momentum.

Best special purpose go-anywhere vehicle was my 91 Explorer Sport. Manual front hubs, 3.73 axles with ARB air lockers let me go anywhere I wanted to. Spent 2 days during the blizzard of 93 shuttling people to and from the hospital and other places. It was fun blasting thru 3' drifts, even got to pull the police department's full size Bronco out of a drift.

Bobzilla wrote: My normal modus operandi is to start car, turn off TCS. Yesterday I did just that, but killed it (stupid dual mass clutch) at one point not paying attention and when you restart, TCS automatically turns back on. Yeah, my fault twice on that one. EDIT: Would a winter/snow tire really make that much of a difference for this car? I've noticed in deep snow that the nose rises up like a boat coming up on the plane. This takes weight and traction off the front tires. Maybe I just need a splitter? lol

Winter tires really work out well in the snow if you can go -1. For example a 205/55R16 and a 195/65R15 are almost exactly the same diameter. I wanted to do that on my WRX but it is hard to find 15's that will fit over the front brakes.

Flight Service wrote: Long Bed 2wd pickup with a big motor and normal tires. never moves and if you do get moving, weeeeeeeee

I had a 91 Chev PU - 454/4 spd combo with a rear posi. I went everywhere sideways.

Worst thing I ever drove in the snow - 15 passenger Chev Van with the traction control system. In the middle of a hill the traction control would just kill the power and you would have to back down.

My '13 Mustang is terrible if there is any accumulation, but I attribute that to the wide summer-only Pirellis. An acquaintance has a nearly identical car to mine and he says it's actually decent in the snow with Blizzaks. A proper LSD and TCS help quite a bit. I live in a very hilly town and twice I've had to crawl up the hills to get to my street with TCS working overtime. Even then, the tail likes to kick out. I did try once without TCS, but I got nowhere fast.

I really need snow tires and wheels, or better yet, to get my Alfa 164 with Altimax Arctics back on the road. I drove it once in the snow and it was totally unflappable. Heated seats rock!

e30 rallykar on star specs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDSTVuek6KU&list=UUZDzORFSilgFFHMqcT8uyIA&feature=c4-overview

Wife's Kia Soul is the worst Ive driven, as stated earlier, TCS is terrible. I don't think the somewhat wide tires don't help either.

Triumph Spitfire... 165/13 tires Fun in a parking lot, but scary on the street.

Girlfriends VW Type III fastback. Mostly because it had absolutely no heat. Your breath would ice the windshield on the inside and you had to keep a scraper handy so you could see.

Really, so much of how a car is in the snow is about tires. So much. My E30 was amazing in the snow, never got stuck in lots of crappy new england weather, but it had good Michelin Xice tires and a limited slip. Our 07 Mazda3, even lowered but with mostly worn good snow tires, clawed its way up an 8" unplowed hill dirt road in Vermont 6 weeks ago blowing snow over the hood and roof. Add lots of weight and severe snow rated tires and it is amazing (like my Suburban).

With crap tires, anything will be awful. I once got stuck in the snow in my E36 M3/4/5 with Ecsta Mx tires, and it was almost useless, even with ASC and a limited slip. Miatas and CRXs on all seasons never got me stuck, but would have been much better with good tires.

Tires Tires Tires

That's it.

That is so strange. The 2013 elantra has been awesome in the same weather you are getting. The TCS only really cuts in on gross wheelspin. Most of the time it does nothing. The ABS is incredible really works well. The stock tires are actually quite good.

my fiero felt like i was driving a hockey puck

NGTD wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: My normal modus operandi is to start car, turn off TCS. Yesterday I did just that, but killed it (stupid dual mass clutch) at one point not paying attention and when you restart, TCS automatically turns back on. Yeah, my fault twice on that one. EDIT: Would a winter/snow tire really make that much of a difference for this car? I've noticed in deep snow that the nose rises up like a boat coming up on the plane. This takes weight and traction off the front tires. Maybe I just need a splitter? lol

Winter tires really work out well in the snow if you can go -1. For example a 205/55R16 and a 195/65R15 are almost exactly the same diameter. I wanted to do that on my WRX but it is hard to find 15's that will fit over the front brakes.

Because of the brakes, I can't go any smaller than a 16" wheel, and even some of those are close fits. Stupid 12" front rotors. What good are brakes, anyway? They only slow you down.

In reply to nocones: The SX came with Goodyear RSA's stock which were aweful in any weather. The ABS works flawlessly IMO. The TCS on the other hand is worthless on anything.

On snow and ice it all comes down to the tires. If you're comparing two different cars, but they aren't on similar rubber, then your comparison is useless.

Yes real winter tires make a huge difference, but there is a wide variation in the quality and characteristics of winter tires (some are more for snow, some are more for ice, some suck, some are fantastic). Also, there is a wide variation is how all-seasons handle snow and ice. Some really are quite good, others become so hard, and have so little siping that you might as well walk.

Where I lived in Germany people drove lots of RWD and FWD cars, very few AWD and next to no SUVs or trucks. It was snowy in the winter and very mountainous. All these Germans got around just fine in their open-diff, RWD Mercs and Bimmers because they all ran winter tires.

I may have found some 16" wheels and snow tires for $200 locally....

In reply to Bobzilla:

Do it!

It's not going to fix your ground clearance issue, but it will help up until you hit that point. My experience with TC/ESC/ABS stuff is that is seems to work better with winter tires. Probably closer to the conditions for which the systems are tuned.

I'm just waiting on pics at this point.

NGTD wrote:

Flight Service wrote: Long Bed 2wd pickup with a big motor and normal tires. never moves and if you do get moving, weeeeeeeee

I had a 91 Chev PU - 454/4 spd combo with a rear posi. I went everywhere sideways.

i daily drove a 90 extended cab 2wd dually for 7 years. 454/4 speed. non posi rear. with a light foot, i used it to plow for 2 years. not infinite traction but not horrible either.

plow?!?!

i have no doubt it would be capable with the right shoes, but PLOW?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: An empty 2wd diesel work van.

I second 2wd diesel. My TDI on 205/55/16 Blizaks is still hopeless at turning raw diesel into speed. Once the turbo spools up at around 1500rpm it just breaks the tires loose and you go nowhere. Below 1500 and it is unresponsive and bogs and you accelerate just as slowly as if you were spinning away. My gutless cadavalier was a freaking beast. Even on ice it barely had enough power to spin up one wheel and combined with meaty cheapo all seasons plowed through 8" of unplowed Cleveland roads without drama. The Golf would be very stressful without stability control. You can constantly feel it trying to keep the back end in line just driving down a straight road. First snowfall in the TDI was 4-6" and combined with the eco E36 M3 OE tires I couldn't even get out of my park space at work.

e36 M3 on old, rock hard Star Specs. Didn't make it 15' down the flat driveway - the first tiny bit of wheelspin glazed a little shiny spot on the 1" of snow and it was stuck.

My old V6 2WD AT Dodge Dakota was spooky on the Cooper LT tires it came with, and awesome w/ some knobby looking Kumhos.

I drove an '83 Civic S on Blizzaks as a courier one winter - 8-12 hours a day all over the DC metro. I'd be going when the 4WDs were stuck.

nocones wrote: That is so strange. The 2013 elantra has been awesome in the same weather you are getting. The TCS only really cuts in on gross wheelspin. Most of the time it does nothing. The ABS is incredible really works well. The stock tires are actually quite good.

On snows I run in all conditions at the speed limit, I only slow if I can't see far enough ahead to stop. The Elantra on snows is a tank.

Bobzilla wrote: I'm just waiting on pics at this point.

You will love them

I've borrowed my brothers 1984 Diesel 4spd Manual short bed reg cab 2wd Ford Ranger until I get my new truck.

The combo of loose manual steering, manual brakes, a heavy diesel motor, street tires and short wheel base with no weight makes it the most terrifying vehicle I've ever driven on ice.

Twice by myself I've had to leave it in gear with the high idle switch pulled and push it out of my drive-way then chase it down.

If anyone can honestly come up with a worse factory combo I will be shocked. I've only driven it twice during emergencies this winter, I've been walking to work since December.

I drove my '88 5spd Ranger 4x2 unloaded through 4 New England winters starting when I was 18. All I remember is having fun. Never got stuck. I got VERY good at prolonged, controlled oversteer however. A trait I've managed to retain but only get to use in snow.

wae wrote: I had the Mazda 5 in about 6 or so inches of unplowed snow. With the TC on, it quite literally backed off the throttle to the point where I thought the car was going to just stall out. Good news is that the wheels weren't spinning, but I also wasn't moving at all. With the TC turned off, though, I could put it in 3rd and spin the wheels enough to pull the car through the snow pretty easily. Worst I ever had was the 2wd Ranger with the small 6 and an autotragic, though. Some sandbags made it better, but pretty much the slightest bit of slickness on the roads and it wasn't going anywhere.

I had an '89, but it was a stick. The first time I drove in the snow I couldn't get enough traction to get going from a light. The crown of the road that I was trying to turn onto was enough to spin the rear tires.

After that I put sand in the bed and it was OK. In later winters I made blocks of concrete that fit in the rear of the bed and locked together with a piece of wood and I never had a problem after that. Well that and better tires, the truck came with a semi-performance tire since it was a STX model.

I have spun on ice in three vehicles: my 1970 510, 1978 Silverado, and today in my 1996 Geo Prism.Two RWDs and a FWD.

Never spun my Neon in 12 years of winter driving... that was my favorite winter driver so far.