Again, the VIN is intact. The VIN is intact. The VIN is intact.
I could file for lost title with the DMV. AFAIK this involves identifying the legal owner and getting his signature on a release. It's possible, but if this is getting scrapped, it seems like an unnecessary expense, and a can of worms I don't need to open.
The tub remains complete and unmodified as of today.
porschenut said:MR2s are getting tough to find, this tub should be given a new life. There are so many rusty ones out there yours could be an opportunity for swapping parts to make one good car.
Aha. Suddenly it occurs to me why I am having this dilemma. I live in a world where, by and large, cars simply don't rust. AW11s don't grow on trees, naturally, but they're available. Contrast that with the voices on the east coast and in the midwest and the UK telling me that the car must be saved, they're too rare, et cetera, and I descend into a tangled web of hand-wringing indecisiveness.
This particular situation seems to be very location dependent. If I lived in the rust belt, it would probably be a no-brainer. As it stands, it's hardly worth anything unless I ship it to a buyer in a rust-prone area, thousands of miles away. Something tells me that the freight cost would exceed the peak value of the tub.
Can you not just get a sunroof delete panel and save the good chassis for somebody else?
What happens inside if you weld the roof on? Is there a headliner that can be swapped over with it or will your car be stuck with a hole on the inside?
It's a bit more shadetree but my friend with a 240SX didn't like his sunroof either and it always leaked so he permanently sealed everything with some sort of silicone.
DarkMonohue said:Again, the VIN is intact. The VIN is intact. The VIN is intact.
I could file for lost title with the DMV. AFAIK this involves identifying the legal owner and getting his signature on a release. It's possible, but if this is getting scrapped, it seems like an unnecessary expense, and a can of worms I don't need to open.
Oh! Then honestly I'd message your DMV and ask their help to search for it and see what options you have. Some states have some VERY in-depth ways of restoring titles.
STM317 said:Can you not just get a sunroof delete panel and save the good chassis for somebody else?
Not really. Aside from the fact that I don't think sunroof delete panels are sitting on the shelf at O'Really, the point is not to disable the sunroof or to replace the glass. The point is to get rid of the entire sunroof assembly because it rattles and clunks and eats up a couple inches of headroom in the process. In j_tso's photo above you can kind of see how much real estate a sunroof consumes in these cars.
j_tso said:What happens inside if you weld the roof on? Is there a headliner that can be swapped over with it or will your car be stuck with a hole on the inside?
It's a bit more shadetree but my friend with a 240SX didn't like his sunroof either and it always leaked so he permanently sealed everything with some sort of silicone.
The parts car has a headliner in serviceable condition, thankfully.
Leaks aren't a problem. The damn thing's just in the way.
GIRTHQUAKE said:Oh! Then honestly I'd message your DMV and ask their help to search for it and see what options you have. Some states have some VERY in-depth ways of restoring titles.
If I wanted a title I'd probably start with the guy whose name is on the Safelite receipt in the glovebox. I believe he is, or was, on some FB MR2 groups.
If I wanted a title I'd probably start with the guy whose name is on the Safelite receipt in the glovebox. I believe he is, or was, on some FB MR2 groups.
Honestly I'd give it a shot- when I was active in the MR2 community guys like Lalo and others would move to get these cars back on the road.
I absolutely would not try to contact the previous owner. If he has title, it's his. All he has to do is claim it.
I understand the love for MR2s. They are cool. But this is a 40 year old parts car with minimal value. Even if it's straight with a tin top.
Build what you want. Use what you own as you want to.
Unmolested Model A's are hard to find too. Finding one doesn't make them great street drivers or highly valuable.
No title = cut it in quarters and sell for scrap value.
This question became potentially more pressing today. There I was, minding my own business and browsing Craigslist for Oldsmobiles that I don't need, and I saw it. Not just a '64 Cutlass - the '64 Cutlass. The very car I pined for thirty years ago and didn't buy because it was already rusty and being eaten alive by the brutal Northern California sun.
The ad had a phone number. I called it. Stories was exchanged, benches was raced. And my wife, seeing the entire gamut of emotions on my face, told me to buy it. All I had to do was get rid of this extra MR2.
The Cutlass is a rusty hulk of a thing with what was once a very wicked engine. It's been on my list for decades. But it would be a full restoration. I don't even have a place to park it, let alone a real shop to work in or the budget to build it.
All the swear words.
Composite route. Don't do the work. Contact local tech school (with composites class) or college with decent engineering program. Pay college student working on a human powered vehicle or formula or solar car to make you a mold. Sell or scrap the shell. Swapping a roof can be a lot of work, especially if you want it to look nice.
If you haven't had the time, don't try to find it if you can buy it cheap. Heck, sponsor a kid's senior project if you want.
DarkMonohue said:STM317 said:Can you not just get a sunroof delete panel and save the good chassis for somebody else?
Not really. Aside from the fact that I don't think sunroof delete panels are sitting on the shelf at O'Really, the point is not to disable the sunroof or to replace the glass. The point is to get rid of the entire sunroof assembly because it rattles and clunks and eats up a couple inches of headroom in the process. In j_tso's photo above you can kind of see how much real estate a sunroof consumes in these cars.
Why would you need this to be on the shelf locally? It's going to be a one time purchase, not something that you might need to stop and grab in a roadside emergency or weekend fix.
I'm seeing generic sunroof delete panels on this here internet in steel, aluminum and carbon fiber for not too much money.
Surely somebody that's considering a full roof swap could figure out a way to install one of those panels and then remove the internal mechanisms and structure. That would leave the good chassis intact, allowing you to sell it for whatever you can get and move on to the other project.
Not to be contrary but the sunroof in these rocks. Why not put in new seals, which will cure the rattles and leaks and lower your seating position to get more headroom? If the rattle when open bothers you , just remove it when driving?
Cut the roof off and list it as a parts car and make it go away. Asking ethical questions of a group is like asking people who has the best pizza, everyone's code is different. I've got people up my ass about parting out a rusty wrecked 300zx. Do what you need to do
I concur with Patrick and SV Rex - Take what you need and roll on.
Making a composite roof filler panel isn't difficult. But isn't necessary. Cut the roof skin and supports out. Sell the car off as parts/scrap. Weld, problem solved.
Also, while "the '64 Cutlass" sounds cool. Walk away. Your emotions have you under control. No shop, no place to store it, etc. Now is not the time and importantly, from someone who has been down this road - it will make you far more anxious in the future than a rust-free AW11 tub.
Unless you're planning to move/build a shop and sell off both your running MR2 and this shell. Don't do it.
STM317 said:Why would you need this to be on the shelf locally? It's going to be a one time purchase, not something that you might need to stop and grab in a roadside emergency or weekend fix.
I'm seeing generic sunroof delete panels on this here internet in steel, aluminum and carbon fiber for not too much money.
Surely somebody that's considering a full roof swap could figure out a way to install one of those panels and then remove the internal mechanisms and structure. That would leave the good chassis intact, allowing you to sell it for whatever you can get and move on to the other project.
I don't need it to be on the shelf, obviously - I was trying to make the point that, AFAIK, sunroof delete panels that match the curvature of the roof do not exist. Admittedly, the roof on these is fairly flat, I don't have the tools or skill to create what little curvature is there. This is a road car, not a track rat, so I'd like to keep the bodywork to looking decent, not like it has a piece of a stop sign riveted to the roof.
porschenut said:Not to be contrary but the sunroof in these rocks. Why not put in new seals, which will cure the rattles and leaks and lower your seating position to get more headroom? If the rattle when open bothers you , just remove it when driving?
The seals are fine. The seals are fine. There are no leaks. The seals are fine. There are rattles, and they come mostly from the sunshade, which is now nearing 40 years of age, and the integral plastic tabs that hold it in place are failing. More than once it's fallen down on me or my passenger while driving. Even wedged in place, it narrates every irregularity in the road with a pwaDUNKwackawacka sound that, somehow, I fail to find endearing. Crazy, right?
I could take the sunshade out, but then I'm sitting under a magnifying glass, which apparently some people enjoy, but I don't like it. And, even with reasonable seals, there is still enough movement in the glass to clunk and shudder every now and then.
I'm not lowering the seat. I'm not entirely sure it's even possible with the factory chairs, and I'm not putting in different seats. The driving position is fine. My head does not need to be lower. The roof needs to be less intrusive.
You are not being contrary. You just hold an opinion that is opposite of mine. I like roadsters, and I like closed cars, but I do not like sunroofs. I especially dislike this sunroof. Sunshade in, sunshade out, glass open, glass closed, glass removed and safely locked in the frunk, I dislike it. I have disliked it for the twenty years I've owned the car, and that's long enough.
Patrick said:Cut the roof off and list it as a parts car and make it go away. Asking ethical questions of a group is like asking people who has the best pizza, everyone's code is different. I've got people up my ass about parting out a rusty wrecked 300zx. Do what you need to do
YOUR WRONG PATRICK and so on.
To be clear - and I probably should have titled the thread differently - this wasn't really meant as an actual right-or-wrong ethics question. More like "am I doing the community a disservice?" than real ethics. But you're entirely correct.
Actually, the fact that there is not a resounding consensus insisting that the shell is precious and must be saved - and waving cash in my face to take it off my hands - confirms that it really is up to me to do as I like.
DocRob said:I concur with Patrick and SV Rex - Take what you need and roll on.
Making a composite roof filler panel isn't difficult. But isn't necessary. Cut the roof skin and supports out. Sell the car off as parts/scrap. Weld, problem solved.
Also, while "the '64 Cutlass" sounds cool. Walk away. Your emotions have you under control. No shop, no place to store it, etc. Now is not the time and importantly, from someone who has been down this road - it will make you far more anxious in the future than a rust-free AW11 tub.
Unless you're planning to move/build a shop and sell off both your running MR2 and this shell. Don't do it.
My preference would be to not cut up the parts car, and I have not ruled out a filler panel. If it looks like a reasonable option, and if I can replicate the stiffening rib on the hardtop car, then I'll certainly give it a try.
As far as the Cutlass project goes, after a lot of thought, wailing and gnashing of teeth, et cetera, I reached the same conclusion; it's too far gone for me to entertain given my lack of resources. It was too far gone when I walked away from it thirty years ago, and it hasn't gotten better since. It's sort of like seeing a high school flame that you never really got over and discovering she's still single. She still makes your heart race, but you're married with children. And also the old flame has the same old bad habits. And warrants.
It has occurred to me that a good headliner in the hardtop configuration is probably the most elusive component of the whole operation. Removing that from the parts car is no sin. I can retain that and, in a worst case scenario, the rest could be faked.
There are options.
Ethics, shmethics. It's your car. I might not approve of your choice, but will defend your right to cut it up till the very end.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:Ethics, shmethics. It's your car. I might not approve of your choice, but will defend your right to cut it up till the very end. Opinions are overrated.
Exactly. There are no ethics involved unless you're trying to swap VINs or something like that. Cut up to your hearts content.
You'll make your MR2 more valuable if you cut up other ones! 
Just for reference, GRMer lxnm removed the sunroof assembly from his rallycross AW11:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/aw11-mr2-rallycross-build/168175/page3/
The way he did it left a neat little rolled lip around the sunroof aperture. If a patch panel could be formed with a similar lip around the perimeter, it might be possible to weld the patch in from below where the lips meet, which could make warpage less of a concern.
In reply to DarkMonohue :
And he posted it online, even though it was expressly against the rules at the time...
I would straight up hack a Ferarri into a kart.
I say stuff like that a lot, but in truth I do give a nod to whether or not it should be done. I yanked a bunch of parts off of a Caprice Wagon to repair my Impala SS body damage and then took the shell to the scrap yard. A bunch of B-body fanatics told me I was going to hell, but I didn't care. It's not like there aren't hundreds of thousands still out there. In my current pursuit of a fast classic that I love (67 GTO convertible) I had the perfect opportunity to buy a 67 Lemans ragtop instead. It saved me thousands by not buying three letters on the grille and I won't feel bad doing a Pro Touring style build. It's the same everything except badges and engine, and since I built a 500hp LS and a T56 for it, I will have effectively surpassed the one difference between the two cars anyway.
Above all, your car = your choice. My personal thought on this is that a sunroof delete panel is likely less work than grafting a different roof on, and it keeps a viable tub for making into a racer, getting the title and selling it to another enthusiast who wants to fix it up, or (at the very least) selling it to another person who might hack it up for parts. Then it's their Karma. But again... their car, their choice.
TL;DR... I usually let money guide me first, then ethics. Wow. That sounds terrible when you read it out of context. I think in this situation, a delete panel is probably the wiser money choice AND it satisfies any ethics conundrum by leaving the donor intact.
I just had this perverse idea that some rich guy should do: Buy a Ferrari and put a Fiero motor in it.
Let's talk composite panel:
1) Carbon fiber is cool
2) It's probably the same amount of work as welding in the panel.
Youtube is your friend for figuring this all out, obviously. But the basic procedure I would follow:
1) Pull the glass out of the sunroof
2) Lay up my carbon fiber right on top of the glass, and mimic the thickness. Glass is non-porous so the CF won't stick to it.
3) Sand the edges (wear your PPE!!!)
4) drop it in with panel adhesive around the edges.
5) Install the good non-sunroof headliner
6) Profit (from the sale of in-tact shell)
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