Evens waterless coolent

Anyone use it? Your thoughts about it.

Its like $50 a gallon it seems.....

No. Just don't. Don't believe the hype.

Several people I know have tried it. All had bad experiences.

Water is a very good heat transfer medium.

Not recommended. Tried it on my old Nissan. Motor ended up running HOTTER after converting to it.

I later found out that Evans uses a high-concentration propylene glycol-ethanol glycol mix as its base. So in addition to having crappy thermal conductivity, it's super slippery (bad for auto-x or track use), and at the concentrations they use, is actually flammable. It's almost the same as running your car on 100% antifreeze, which is a terrible idea.

I've had it in my RX-8 for 40k miles since the rebuild. Engine has stayed as cool as it should autocrossing on 90 degree days. I guess the trick is to never let water and Evans mix. It makes a mess inside the engine. 

We tried it at work and gave up. went back to good old green, kill-your-cat type antifreeze.

I reached out to them about using it in water cooling in computers but it turns out that it will not work for that.

ShawnG said:

We tried it at work and gave up. went back to good old green, kill-your-cat type antiantifreeze...i have 2 cats, and I am a retired 22 year army 19d.. 3 tours in iraq, 1st gulf war

. I love my cats, they keep me alive. So please chose  your words carefully.

dean1484 said:

I reached out to them about using it in water cooling in computers but it turns out that it will not work for that.

There are plenty of other options for computers including silicone-based stuff (which Tesla actually uses in their cars).

I've heard about mysterious increases in running temperature from switching to Evans before, but the stuff is recommended for use from the factory by some high-end car manufacturers including Noble, so maybe it's super-sensitive to water contamination?

I haven't tried it yet because of the devastating expense, you have to be really confident in the condition of your coolant hoses to fill the system with liquid gold.

Propylene glycol coolants also won't kill your cat BTW. Make sure there is no ethylene glycol mixed in.

boxedfox said:

Not recommended. Tried it on my old Nissan. Motor ended up running HOTTER after converting to it.

I later found out that Evans uses a high-concentration propylene glycol-ethanol glycol mix as its base. So in addition to having crappy thermal conductivity, it's super slippery (bad for auto-x or track use), and at the concentrations they use, is actually flammable. It's almost the same as running your car on 100% antifreeze, which is a terrible idea.

It is possible (though not likely in your case) that coolant temps can go up because the coolant is absorbing more heat from the water jackets.

Rotary guys love them some NPG.  Due to factors in how rotaries work, the metal around the spark plugs will reach 400+F.  No water based coolant is going to cool that effectively unless you can several hundred PSI of water pressure.  The NPG has a very high boiling point, so it won't film boil at extreme hot spots like this, and steam makes a dandy insulator.

Curious if who had problems used the prep fluid prior to pouring Evans in.

I would not recommend it personally. Professionally I have no opinion. 

Ranger50 said:

Curious if who had problems used the prep fluid prior to pouring Evans in.

I did.

GameboyRMH said:

dean1484 said:

I reached out to them about using it in water cooling in computers but it turns out that it will not work for that.

There are plenty of other options for computers including silicone-based stuff (which Tesla actually uses in their cars).

I've heard about mysterious increases in running temperature from switching to Evans before, but the stuff is recommended for use from the factory by some high-end car manufacturers including Noble, so maybe it's super-sensitive to water contamination?

I haven't tried it yet because of the devastating expense, you have to be really confident in the condition of your coolant hoses to fill the system with liquid gold.

Propylene glycol coolants also won't kill your cat BTW. Make sure there is no ethylene glycol mixed in.

my new ecotec engine  well be a dry engine and coolant system all dry now, never touched water

 

L.p.

In reply to Knurled. :

That's a useful tidbit I'm stashing away for later this year.

my car came with Evans, it lived in AZ, i live in a climate where it was colder than Mars (according to the news 2 years ago) I tried to test it for -40 because we get that every year - and it wouldn't read properly on my standard tester. i ditched it and used normal stuff

GRM did a whole deally about it when they had their Fox Mustang.  IIRC they loved it.

1 out of 3 words correct is not a good average especially when we can't edit thread titles.

I'll provide a counterpoint.  I used it and loved it.

Most people hate it because "it runs hotter."  Temperature has very little to do with the equation.  The only reason 230 degrees is "overheating and damage" is because that is the limit of a water-based, pressurized system.  Overheating an engine at 230 degrees doesn't cause damage because that temperature warps the heads, it's because it's boiling and parts of the casting get superheated disproportionately to the rest of it.  The castings of the motor don't care if they are at 150 degrees or 300.  Gasoline flame fronts burn at 2000 degrees and higher.  300 degrees isn't too hot for cast iron or aluminum, it's just too hot for a water-based, pressurized coolant system.

The secret here is to remember your thermodynamics chapter, and that Heat does not equal Temperature.  The cooling system has to be effective at transferring heat.  In a water-based system, it loses the ability to transfer a lot of heat as soon as it starts boiling.  Non-aqueous coolants still transfer the same amount of heat regardless of what temperature they are.

In a water-based system, as the temperature rises and it begins to convert water into steam, there are bubbles on the outside of the chambers.  Anywhere there are bubbles, the heat can't transfer as well and you get more heat energy trapped in the combustion.  The result is detonation/pre-ignition.  It has nothing to do with the fact that the water temperatures are 230 degrees instead of 200, it has to do with the effectiveness of the system at transferring HEAT, not temperature.  Swap out for non-aqueous coolant, and you won't get any detonation at 275 degrees because there is no loss of surface contact or heat transfer.

Having said that... there are downsides.  Straight propylene glycol is not as fast at transferring heat as a water mix.  In general, you need to beef up the rest of the system; maybe a 4-row radiator, bigger radiator, better airflow, etc.  If you do all of those things, chances are it will still run a bit hotter, but the point is... it doesn't matter.

Other downsides: it is recommended to run it with a very low pressure (or no pressure) cap.  That way any condensation that makes its way in can evaporate out.  This means that you'll always smell coolant.  The real benefit there, though, is with lower pressures you greatly reduce the chance of leaks and blown hoses.  The other benefit to straight PG is also corrosion protection.

It's not for everyone, but for me towing 10k lbs with a Caddy 500, it was brilliant.  I installed an oil temp gauge to be safe, but it was never an issue.  Foot to the floor in 104-degree weather towing from Phoenix to Flagstaff uphill for 150 miles the highest coolant temperature I saw was 285 and no detonation, no boiling, no blown hoses.  When I sold that Caddy 500, it looked like a fresh casting in the water passages.

I would say for a street car, pass.  Drag race, maybe, but not necessary.  Tow rig, great... if you do some supporting mods.  If you can (it depends on the engine and how it is cast) blocking the coolant bypass and removing the thermostat can be a good move with NPG.  In the Caddy, it is an internal passage under the thermostat and you can use a freeze plug.  SBC usually uses the heater core as the bypass.  BBC has that little hose on the water pump.  You get the idea.

You can't just dump in NPG and expect it to work.  Its like putting R134 in an R12 system and expecting it to be ice cold.  The cooling system has to be engineered to work with the lower-heat-capacity coolant.

freestyle said:

I've had it in my RX-8 for 40k miles since the rebuild. Engine has stayed as cool as it should autocrossing on 90 degree days. I guess the trick is to never let water and Evans mix. It makes a mess inside the engine. 

Propylene glycol doesn't make a mess in water.  In fact, it is miscible in water and it is used as plumbing antifreeze.  If it made a mess with water, it wouldn't be used as plumbing antifreeze.

I heard we were in here killing cats. 

boxedfox said:

Not recommended. Tried it on my old Nissan. Motor ended up running HOTTER after converting to it.

I later found out that Evans uses a high-concentration propylene glycol-ethanol glycol mix as its base. So in addition to having crappy thermal conductivity, it's super slippery (bad for auto-x or track use), and at the concentrations they use, is actually flammable. It's almost the same as running your car on 100% antifreeze, which is a terrible idea.

Evans uses just Propylene glycol, hence why it is called Evans NPG.  It is only a tiny bit more flammable than Ethylene glycol;  700F vs 748F respectively.

Nick Comstock said:

I heard we were in here killing cats. 

 

They taste great with some Evans marinade