Ever Drive a Phenominal Car and Not Like It?

S2000 - Why do I want to drive a heavy car with no torque that requires being driven at 8/9ths to be fun on the street?

E90 M3 - Sleek, comfortable, GT feeling but in the end it felt like just an overstyled overpriced appliance. A Bosch Toaster?

C5 Corvette Z06 - It was supposed to be the "performance car bargain of the century" but you literally cannot buy tires for it with the stock wheels and aftermarket wheels that are at least as wide as stock start at over $2000 a set. The seats also crash around, the shifter is the worst I've felt this side of a farm truck, and you have to put $$$$ coilovers on it to realistically get it to handle well.

A couple summers ago, my wife and I got Turos to use while on vacation. We rented a Saturn Sky on Turo.  My wife actually picked it out.  I found everything about that car disagreeable.  Poor visibility over the hood line, the cockpit felt claustrophobic, handling felt like I was wrangling a recalcitrant cat.  My wife loved the car though.

My pick, 3rd choice since my wife vetoed the idea of renting a 350 or 370Z Nismo that Doug Demuro had reviewed (she said the review made her NOT want to try this car), and another owner of a different car flaked out on us, was a four seat Mercedes convertible.  Obviously it's not fair comparing a much more expensive luxury vehicle to a people's roadster, but even from a driving dynamics perspective, I preferred the Mercedes, besides the interior just being a nicer place to be.

(Both were daunting to me albeit for different reasons.  The Saturn because I couldn't see E36 M3, kept stalling the clutch, felt claustrophobic, and just generally didn't get along with the car.  The Mercedes because all of the tech had me constantly asking "why is it doing this?" and "How do I make it do that?")

The whole experience made me question my car-guy assumptions, because I went into it geeking out over factual knowledge of the Saturn Sky, and to find I hated the actual experience of it was like expecting milk and accidentally drinking water.  Maybe I just need to get out more:  I may have worked on more cars than actually driven.  The hourly ratio of time spent with a wrench in my hand vs a steering wheel is worse.

Figuring out what you'll like is related to the roof / no roof conundrum:  convertibles are cool, but also floppy and/or heavy.  But how do you know which will really make you happy long term until you're committed.

I forgot to mention my other Turo experience.  I was having to drive my mother back and forth while my dad was in the hospital for a few weeks.  The trip was three 20 minute legs twice a day.  When my Honda Element broke down from the relative overuse, it was a crisis/opportunity to try something else on Turo.

I rented a Veloster and hated it.  Granted it wasn't the N model, but I can't see that being enough improvement to make me like the car.  I thought the rear visibility was atrocious, I found the driving position uncomfortable, turns out I miss hydraulic steering, etc.

I couldn't wait to get back to my Honda Element after repairs were finished.

(I actually used to own a manual 2nd gen Hyundai Accent hatchback.  It was more fun than the Veloster AND had such a bigger greenhouse.  I know, I know, crash safety standards...)

Ford Focus RS. I got to co-drive my friend's at an autocross and was left feeling cold. Uncomfortable seats, unpleasant ride quality, too much electronic BS going on behind the scenes resulted in me never knowing what the car was doing and what it wanted me to do, I only used launch control once because Ford buried it in the DIC menus. The stupid exhaust pop on decel is so fake and contrived, there's no burble leading up to it. And Ford can claim 350hp, but I did not feel 100hp more powerful than a Focus ST. Maybe 30hp more, sure. 

After 8 runs in the RS and never feeling at ease, I jumped in a stock ST, having never driven one before, and on my first run I was 1.5 seconds faster than my best run in the RS and just got faster. Yeah, you can keep your RS, I'd rather have an ST.

The Focus RS is the big one but a couple other ones come to mind:

Solstice/Sky: I won't go on too much, because I've aired my feelings on them here before. But a 260hp, RWD, 2-seat roadster with Nurburgring-tuned suspension sounds awesome. But when you add the cramped interior, dorky convertible top, and agricultural-feeling drivetrain, it just really ruins the experience.

S2000. Drove my friend's modified one (STR class) at an autocross. He frequently won championships and set FTD, so it was a capable car. I couldn't get past how much of a dog it was down low. Below 4500rpm there was just nothing going on. I think that's my prime example of high-RPM peaky drivetrains are really cool on paper but in real life I'd rather have a big displacement or supercharged car with a broad power range. The car also just felt really... heavy. That's the only way I could describe it. 

C7 Z06/07. Having driven several base and Z51 model C7s and loving them, particularly with the 8-speed auto, I was excited to get tossed the keys to a Z07 convertible and take it for a rip. The seats in it were supremely uncomfortable, as in my back hurt after 2 or 3 miles and bothered me all day. 650hp is about the limit where it's just too much for the street. If you stabbed the throttle and the pavement wasn't perfectly clean and dry it blew the tires off, and when it did hook up, you couldn't really stay in it because it instantly shot you into "lose your license" territory. My statement on returning with it was "It's just not $50k more fun than a base C7". This was also the timespan where they were overheating like crazy, Motor Trend broke theirs during Best Driver's Car, it failed to beat the old ZR1 and outgoing Viper's record at Laguna Seca and was described as "feeling incomplete and uncontrollable" and "having something fundamentally wrong with the suspension", so I think I called that one well.

WRX.  Any Modern Subaru really but mostly the WRX.   Floppy suspension, rubbery shifter, terrible quality interior, 90s turbo lag, and the knowledge that if you run on track that you will spin a bearing.  I just don't get the love.   

I spent a couple weekends driving around F30's and Gallardo's at IMS as a paid instructor. Don't get me wrong, they;re fine cars I guess. Just not worth that money IMO and to be honest a little underwhelming.

2002 EP3 Civic Si. At the time I owned a 1991 CRX Si and was new car shopping. The EP3 was so terrible compared to my 100K mile CRX. It felt like I was driving a 3/4 scale minivan. What a letdown. I also cross shopped the SVT Focus. The chassis was much more responsive but the Focus had literally the worst shifter I've ever used in a new vehicle. It truly reminded me of my high school buddy's POS '84 Tempo 5 speed. I ended up with a Sentra SE-R Spec V. The shifter still wasn't as good as the CRX but the gobs of torque from the 2.5 was a lot of fun. 

mblommel said:

2002 EP3 Civic Si. 

I mean, the EP3 was pretty derided as a step back even when new, so I would say it doesn't fall under the title of "Ever drive a phenomenal car and not like it?" since the EP3 was never considered phenomenal. 

NickD said:

mblommel said:

2002 EP3 Civic Si. 

I mean, the EP3 was pretty derided as a step back even when new, so I would say it doesn't fall under the title of "Ever drive a phenomenal car and not like it?" since the EP3 was never considered phenomenal. 

NickD said:

S2000. Drove my friend's modified one (STR class) at an autocross. He frequently won championships and set FTD, so it was a capable car. I couldn't get past how much of a dog it was down low. Below 4500rpm there was just nothing going on. 

If you were autocrossing an S2000 and were under 4500 rpms, you were either leaving the line or doing it wrong ... just saying. 

In reply to Slippery :

street driving those and the RSX-S always felt like I was beating the horse. It's a dog doing normal things and to be fun you got to flog it.

In reply to bobzilla :

I dont disagree with your statement, but he especifically said he was autocrossing it ... 

In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :

Wait, I thought you have one?

Slippery said:

NickD said:

S2000. Drove my friend's modified one (STR class) at an autocross. He frequently won championships and set FTD, so it was a capable car. I couldn't get past how much of a dog it was down low. Below 4500rpm there was just nothing going on. 

If you were autocrossing an S2000 and were under 4500 rpms, you were either leaving the line or doing it wrong ... just saying. 

It was my first time driving it and it was a course with some pretty sharp corners. I was used to my Rotrex-supercharged Miata, which despite the Rotrex blower being derided for lack of midrange power, apparently made more midrange power, because if I have over 3000rpm it moves right out without needing to downshift. 

The funny thing is after he got in my car and went out, he then came back and took someone fora  ride in his S2000 and afterwards was like "Wow, this thing feels weak now." Actual peak numbers were within a couple digits of each other, it was just how the power curve was.

NickD said:

The funny thing is after he got in my car and went out, he then came back and took someone fora  ride in his S2000 and afterwards was like "Wow, this thing feels weak now." Actual peak numbers were within a couple digits of each other, it was just how the power curve was.

Yeah, the old butt-dyno is pretty sensitive to the shape of the power curve.  A stock 1.6 Miata has more aggressive cams than a 1.8, so even though the 1.6 makes less torque everywhere it fools you into thinking it's faster than it is because the cams ramp in more.

Also note that "midrange" on an S2000 is 4500 RPM (halfway to redline) whereas on a Miata it's only 3600 RPM. :)

bobzilla said:

NickD said:

mblommel said:

2002 EP3 Civic Si. 

I mean, the EP3 was pretty derided as a step back even when new, so I would say it doesn't fall under the title of "Ever drive a phenomenal car and not like it?" since the EP3 was never considered phenomenal. 

You guys are right. At the time I was very excited for the first hatchback Civic Si in a really long time. I absolutely loved my CRX, so in my mind I was thinking I'd get a brand new version of that car. The disappointment was bitter. Enough so that it soured me from the Honda brand. Almost 20 years later it still bugs me on some regard. I guess that personal experience clouded my judgment in responding to the post. 

How about the time when I drove an SLP Trans Am and hated it? Those are supposed to be "good" right?

CyberEric said:

In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :

Wait, I thought you have one?

Literally sold it yesterday on BaT. I did not like it at all outside of the power and soundtrack.

I've been down this road so many times.  It really boils down to being a car hobbiest.  As car hobbiests we have a totally different set of expectations and realities than other car buyers.  They don't really make cars targeted to car hobbiests as the market is just too small.  That's why things like the Focus RS always end up compromised and too expensive. 

I've driven a lot of "cool cars" that were just overpriced and didn't deliver the goods.  Honestly the most fun I've ever had driving to date was an NA Miata on the mountain roads of WA state and my crappy Subaru RS rallycrossing on dirt in OK.  Neither is a great all around car, but they do what they do quite well.  Both were cheap fun, and that definitely put a satisified smile on my face. 

I paid $3500 for a 96 Camaro SS recently.  It has a lot of problems, but I bet it can be turned into a decent CAM car for not a ton of cash. 

My all time best driving experience was the 3 sisters in the TX hill country, but that was on a motorcycle.  I need to get a new muffler for the Boxster so I can hear it and then get it on the same roads. 

As car hobbiests, you quickly realize there is no such things as one do it all car which will always lead to some area of dissatisfaction in one way or another.  It's also why my daily driver is a truck.  It can move people, cars, car parts, go camping, go offroad and do lots of mundane stuff really well. 

All of my worst drives have been old muscle cars and learning they are not nearly as fast as their reputations or as good, but I still love them anyway.  They have character. 

mblommel said:

 

How about the time when I drove an SLP Trans Am and hated it? Those are supposed to be "good" right?

I mean.... sorta? Wet noodle chassis, too much power and an interior that fell apart the day it was made. But other than that sure!

Sonic said:

WRX.  Any Modern Subaru really but mostly the WRX. 

I feel like the WRX is a "time and place" kind of car.

At the time the WRX came out, the 240hp E36 M3 was considered a fast car. And here you had a compact car with similar power and weight as a $40k E36 M3 ... plus a better balanced AWD platform than a $42k Audi S4 ... but it only cost $26k. And you got cool gear like a Momo wheel, grippy seats, and a bit of flash.

At that time and place, I was a 26-year-old broke medical resident living in Canada. Just starting off on HPDE stuff. Needing a practical daily driver for Quebec winters. The WRX seemed like the perfect car ... and it was just within reach, unlike an M3 or S4.

Today, I don't see the WRX as having that kind of space in the market. Everyone makes AWD, turbo sedans with 300 hp. Why get a WRX instead of a Honda or whatever?

bobzilla said:

I spent a couple weekends driving around F30's and Gallardo's at IMS as a paid instructor. Don't get me wrong, they;re fine cars I guess. Just not worth that money IMO and to be honest a little underwhelming.

Agreed—my experience with the Gallardo can be summed up as “Is that it? Really?”  It just doesn’t deliver the excitement you’d expect.