Ever replace an ignition tumbler?

My Toyota 4-Runner has always had a hitch when you turn the key. Sometimes you have to wiggle the key to get it over to start, not today. It's not happening, DOA right in the driveway. The key won't go over. I tried another key that's never been in the ignition but it won't work either.

My buddy's shop can get me a replacement for $100, it's the whole kit & kaboodle. NAPA wants $55 for the barrel and two keys. When I asked about installing it, the guy said something about using a paperclip to pop out the old one; "Cool, it's got instructions?" No. The $55 one is just the center barrel and two keys; I don't have electrical issues so why spend the money?

Can you guys get me through this or do I call a locksmith?

Dan

Dan, I did it on a VW once. It involved drilling a small hole to insert the 'paper clip', and the Bentley manual provided clear instructions regarding the location of the hole. With that knowledge, it was a cake-walk, and WAY EASIER than replacing the whole housing.

Don't know if that has any application to your Toyota situation or if it just provides a false sense of security, but I hope it is helpful.

It sounds like you will have to have a new ignition made for you. My FC's ignition was knifed by a would-be thief before I bought it. I have to use a small screwdriver to push one of the tumblers in to get it from the OFF to ACC position. I don't need the screwdriver to switch between ACC, ON, and IGN. It seems easy enough to replace myself (undo wiring harness, Dremel off two security bolts, put new one in), but a new key set from Mazda is $178 with my Mazdaspeed Motorsports discount. My buddy has a parts car I can take stuff from for free, but our schedules never work out. I just make sure I don't try firing up the car whenever there's a cop nearby, lest he think I'm hotwiring my own car!

It wasn't a big deal on a neon, the tumbler just pops right out if you use the paperclip or screwdriver at just the right time when rotating the key - IIRC somewhere between off and on (may be different with the Nissan as acc on the neon was turning the key counterclockwise), there was even an access hole through the trim so no disassembly of the column was needed.

Took a little to figure it out as I had never done it before - but easy as store bought pie now.

A locksmith would be able to key the new ignition to your doors and install it in very little time - shouldn't be much cheddar to get done either.

Not too bad. I replaced one in a Dodge Shadow and friend of my wifes car, some kind of Pontiac I believe, don't remember. Took one out of a 72 MG Midget so we could turn the wheel (didn't have a key). Just take your time and study it and should come right out. Installation reverse of removal.

They are generally easy to replace if you don't use it until it won't turn at all.

Yesterday, when you were able to turn it to the run position, you just depress a pin and it slides out. Now, you either drill it, or wiggle the key until it turns. Sometimes a quick shot with an air hammer will rattle stuff enough to get it to rotate, but if a tumbler has fallen right out, you may be screwed.

If you can find the Toyota key code, either in the manual or by giving a dealer the serial number and proof you own the vehicle, maybe a new key cut from code will work. If the new key you have is actually new, and not just a fresh cut from a worn out key, disregard this paragraph.

First thing to try: like streetwise guy says get a new key cut by the Toyota dealer using the VIN. The other key 'that's never been used', if it was cut by Lowe's etc from the old key will have the wear pattern traced from the old key, making it as bad as the worn key.

I have had a fair amount of success in the past by hosing the cylinder with WD40 or similar, then putting the key in and using a screwdriver handle or small plastic mallet to tap the key further into the switch as you wiggle it. Now you can do the 'paper clip' thing, on most imports the hole is on the bottom of the lock under the cylinder.

I'm a locksmith by trade (retired), and have swapped out hundreds of ignition switches. You'd likely be shocked to see how simple the tumblers are; made of brass, and very fragile. I've always been suprised that they last as long as they do.

I've never done one on this particular car, but it should be the same as other models. Remove the shroud on the steering column. That will give you access to the cylinder housing. There is a hole in the housing that doesn't seem to serve any purpose. That's the retainer access hole.

While a paper clip might work in a pinch, most of us have more sophisticated tools for the job (i.e. an ice pick). You simply have to push the retainer button at the bottom of the hole, and the cylinder should slide right out.

The bad news: To prevent theft, the retainer pin will only depress if the switch is in the ON position, so you have to get your key to turn it ONE MORE TIME. Then simply take the replacement cylinder, turn it's key to the ON position, depress the pin, and slide it back in. When you turn the key back to OFF, the retainer pin will pop back up to secure the cylinder. Reinstall the shroud. Job finished.

The inconvenient part is that now you have to carry two keys instead of just one. A good locksmith shop that has the proper kit will be able to set the lock to your existing key. When I had my shop (sold it in '05), we ordered the cylinders O bitted, which means it comes w/o tumblers at all, and we would custom fit each one to the customer's car. For this reason, you might be just as well off ordering the cylinder from a locksmith, so it can be set to your key when you start the job. Call around and find a shop that has the right tumbler kit for your model first; some shops don't do much automotive.

Hope I've been of some help. Good Luck!

P.S. When trying to get the old key to turn that last one time, it's of paramount importance that you "hold your mouth just right". You wouldn't think that would help, but it does...

Uhh.. i usually just take off the steering wheel and find the release for the tumbler and push it.

'tricks' probably only save you time when you already know how to do them.

I've got nothing to add but that when the ignition switch in my van finally locked up I got it to turn that one last time by giving the key a nice tap with a hammer.

Are you sure that it is inside the tumblers? When I got my POS 4runner, it had a somewhat similar condition but it turned out to be the switch on the trans that wouldnt release the key. A locksmith wired around it and there have been no more problems.

Vigo wrote: Uhh.. i usually just take off the steering wheel and find the release for the tumbler and push it. 'tricks' probably only save you time when you already know how to do them.

Vigo, that works fine on AMERICAN cars. I have done a standard GM switch in 14 minutes. Beat that with a stick.

The OP has a Toyota, which is a different kettle of fish.

If your vehicle is older than 2000 the dealer most likely won't be able to look up your vehicle by the VIN. If you've got the correct key code, just take it to your local locksmith and have him cut you a new key. Can't help you with getting the cylinder out though.

They usually come right out. I've never tried putting one back in though

Here's the thing...

Whatever wear the brass key has will cause an equivilant amount of wear on the (even smaller) brass tumblers inside. At some point there will be a groove worn in the tumbler that will keep even a code-cut key from working.

In my experience (which is considerable), this happens most often when too much pressure is exserted on the fragile tumblers. This is normally caused by having a key ring that has bangles and baubles hanging from it. We've all seen folks who had everything but the kitchen sink attached to their car key ring. As you drive down the road the weight of the ring sways back and forth, forcing the key againt the tumblers, causing undue wear and premature failure of the cylinder. I've seen it a thousand times.

When even a factory code cut key will no longer work is when folks call a locksmith. That's where I came in, and so I know of what I speak (type).

Once you get this thing resolved, use a minimum of stuff on your ring. Ideally, just the key all by itself, but I know that's hardly practical for most people.

Oh yeah.. always keep a spare in your wallet.

Thanks guys! I tried a brandy new key that I've had since buying the car new in '94. NFG. I am a big opponent to dangly crap banging around the key hole, so yeah, there was never any real weight tugging on the tumbler. The key goes in the dash, not the column, but the only thing on my key ring is one key, one small swiss army knife and one bottle opener.

I have a call into a friend who is a locksmith, no new information from him, maybe today.

Thanks for the help, Dan

The OP has a Toyota, which is a different kettle of fish.

Im sure its too complicated for me to figure out, ASE Master doesnt mean much, anyway.

The key goes in the dash, not the column

I thought i was reading upside down, but nope.. it really was in the last post, and not the first..

In the honder world we just replace the tumblers. we have this nice cute box full of them and replace 'em. Very common on the older Integras and Legends.

Sorry Vigo, I tried to think of everything.

Vigo wrote:

The OP has a Toyota, which is a different kettle of fish.

Im sure its too complicated for me to figure out, ASE Master doesnt mean much, anyway.

The key goes in the dash, not the column

I thought i was reading upside down, but nope.. it really was in the last post, and not the first..

I must apologize; we were both thinking the switch was on the column. Turns out we were both mistaken, as the unit is on the dash.

As I said, I'd never done this particular vehicle, but was thinking of the generic Toyota switches.

It was a 10 minute job! I finally got the key over to ACC one last time. Remove the plastic around the bottom of the dash, push in the 1/8" diameter pin on the bottom and pull the key out. Tumbler comes with it.

New tumbler with two keys is $54 @ NAPA.

Hapy, happy.