Ever wonder what happened to the Domestic auto manufacturers?

I could also title this as "Nummi - the way forward?"

Here is the breakdown on the story: A car plant in Fremont California that might have saved the U.S. car industry. In 1984, General Motors and Toyota opened NUMMI as a joint venture. Toyota showed GM the secrets of its production system: how it made cars of much higher quality and much lower cost than GM achieved. Frank Langfitt explains why GM didn't learn the lessons – until it was too late.

Go to this link and take a listen. This is one incredible story about Toyota, GM, and the quality of U.S. cars.

This American Life: Episode 403: Nummi

Apparently, Toyota forgot their own lesson. Of course, we ignored the quality procedures we taught Toyota after WW2, as well.

Considering domestic quality is now on a par with Toyota, once again the industry proves cyclical.

Although it's an interesting contrast to 1Q 2010 GQRS results where Ford is best in TGW and Customer satisfaction, followed by honda, followed then closely by the new GM.

Toyota has kinda fallen off both charts from the lead.

(one oddity- VAG was worst, behind even Chrysler in Things Gone Wrong, yet in the top 4 in customer satisfaction- so make a really bad car, and the customer is happy about it...)

I wish I knew where the GQRS data was available on line. (Global Qualoty Research System)

Anyway, it's not 1984 anymore. Nor is it even 2007 or 2008.

Eric

In reply to forzav12:

Wow, the domestics are on par with a company with millions of vehicles under recall? What an awesome improvement!

pres589 wrote: In reply to forzav12: Wow, the domestics are on par with a company with millions of vehicles under recall? What an awesome improvement!

Actually, Ford is in the lead, ahead of even Honda in TGW and Customer Satisfaction.

Also, the TGW data only includes that quarter data- so Toyota has had problems in the NEW cars, not the ones they are recalling. No idea why.

So, it's not a comparison w/ Toyota, but with everyone.

Eric

In reply to alfadriver:

I was making fun of the comparison, I don't have any problems with the domestic's quality at this point, at least not GM or Ford.

For a real insight into the domestic auto industry, read Crash Course-The American Automobile Industry's Road From Glory to Disaster by Paul Ingrassia. It's a great account of everything from the start of the industry to the recent bankruptcies. I just did a critical review of it as a project in grad school and highly recommend it to car nuts everywhere.

listening to the piece nothing really surprised me. sad but true

jimbob_racing wrote: For a real insight into the domestic auto industry, read Crash Course-The American Automobile Industry's Road From Glory to Disaster by Paul Ingrassia. It's a great account of everything from the start of the industry to the recent bankruptcies. I just did a critical review of it as a project in grad school and highly recommend it to car nuts everywhere.

Ingrassia is the man when it comes to discussing the auto business. I have been reading his articles in the Wall Street Journal for many years.

One big difference between NUMMI and Toyota's other plants - unions. When I worked at TMMK in Kentucky we had engineers from NUMMI working with us pretty regularly (had one as a roommate for a while) and they stated that was the single biggest difference . So I can see how it would be very difficult to implement those TPS policies GM-wide.

alfadriver wrote: (one oddity- VAG was worst, behind even Chrysler in Things Gone Wrong, yet in the top 4 in customer satisfaction- so make a really bad car, and the customer is happy about it...)

Yup they make E36 M3e, they even repackage Chrysler minivans but the reason the customers are happy is the service departments.

We ARE that good ;)

I took my Stratus to the Dodge dealer for the current no start condition and they ifnormed me that they weren't particularly interested in hunting down the wiring issue. No more NEWER Dodges for the Browns (We currently own two). Too bad, really, I am a closet Mopar fan.

John Brown wrote:

alfadriver wrote: (one oddity- VAG was worst, behind even Chrysler in Things Gone Wrong, yet in the top 4 in customer satisfaction- so make a really bad car, and the customer is happy about it...)

Yup they make E36 M3e, they even repackage Chrysler minivans but the reason the customers are happy is the service departments. We ARE that good ;) I took my Stratus to the Dodge dealer for the current no start condition and they ifnormed me that they weren't particularly interested in hunting down the wiring issue. No more NEWER Dodges for the Browns (We currently own two). Too bad, really, I am a closet Mopar fan.

Truth. My 2001 Jetta VR6 had the leaky coolant level sensor that wicked coolant through the wiring harness...that was discovered after the warranty was out. They covered the entire $2k bill, and changed EVERYTHING that could have possibly been effected. I think some of it has to do with how they drive, too. They're just fun to drive. I think someone here said it best(when discussing '80s GM quality). Something to the effect of, he's had a mid '80 Jetta and a mid '80s Cavalier. Both seemed to be about the same quality, but when a door handle, etc. broke on the Jetta, he didn't mind fixing it. The Cavalier wasn't any fun to drive, which made working on it even more of an inconvenience.

^ +1. A lot can be forgiven if the car is "fun", if it makes me smile behind the wheel I don't mind working on it. Otherwise, burn it to the ground and find another.

John Brown wrote: Yup they make E36 M3e, they even repackage Chrysler minivans but the reason the customers are happy is the service departments. We ARE that good ;)

Not according to VW Vortex...

John Brown wrote:

alfadriver wrote: (one oddity- VAG was worst, behind even Chrysler in Things Gone Wrong, yet in the top 4 in customer satisfaction- so make a really bad car, and the customer is happy about it...)

Yup they make E36 M3e, they even repackage Chrysler minivans but the reason the customers are happy is the service departments. We ARE that good ;)

Well, I'm sure it helps that you get to be on a first name basis with your customers- since you get to see them so often...

E-

John Brown wrote: I am a closet Mopar fan.

not anymore...I cant believe you said that out loud!...or typed...whatever. (this coming from someone who scours CL for GLHs)

John Brown wrote:

alfadriver wrote: (one oddity- VAG was worst, behind even Chrysler in Things Gone Wrong, yet in the top 4 in customer satisfaction- so make a really bad car, and the customer is happy about it...)

Yup they make E36 M3e, they even repackage Chrysler minivans but the reason the customers are happy is the service departments. We ARE that good ;) I took my Stratus to the Dodge dealer for the current no start condition and they ifnormed me that they weren't particularly interested in hunting down the wiring issue. No more NEWER Dodges for the Browns (We currently own two). Too bad, really, I am a closet Mopar fan.

Find a different service department or talk to the dealer principal.

I liked the article because it talked to every level of the organization. It touched on the union vs management angle. It talked about the philosophical differences between Toyota and GM's production.

A well put together piece IMHO.

iceracer wrote: Find a different service department or talk to the dealer principal.

They know me pretty well, the Principal drinks at the bar my wife works at (daily) and the next dealer is twenty miles farther either way and I am far too lazy to drive an extra hour into work.

The car is back home and I am searching for an underhood ground path diagram.