F1 2014

In reply to codrus:

I know that Ferrari owners are very different than any other OEM, and that F1 is a good advertising hook.

But it's 13% of their entire revenue. So sum all of the cars that people paid for, and that's $3M. Take off the cost to make the cars, and develop the cars, and pay all of the employees.... Relative to that, they spend $500M on a single race series. Of course, most of that is sponsors. But for that kind of investment, they are not getting much of a return. At some point, it does become a numbers and economics issue. As it did for Ford(Jaguar), BMW, Honda, Toyota, BRM, Hart, Lotus (both times), Alfa Romeo, and a ton of small privateers.

Fiat just sent a message that they may not be willing to spend that kind of money anymore.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to codrus: I know that Ferrari owners are very different than any other OEM, and that F1 is a good advertising hook. But it's 13% of their entire revenue. So sum all of the cars that people paid for, and that's $3M. Take off the cost to make the cars, and develop the cars, and pay all of the employees.... Relative to that, they spend $500M on a single race series. Of course, most of that is sponsors. But for that kind of investment, they are not getting much of a return. At some point, it does become a numbers and economics issue. As it did for Ford(Jaguar), BMW, Honda, Toyota, BRM, Hart, Lotus (both times), Alfa Romeo, and a ton of small privateers. Fiat just sent a message that they may not be willing to spend that kind of money anymore.

They're not really spending $500M. We don't know the level of contribution from Fiat, but let's say, hypothetically, that it's $100M, or 20%. If 80% of that money comes from sponsors, prize money, FIA "thanks for showing up and bringing your red cars" money, etc, then that $400M in revenue wouldn't exist without the 20% Ferrari puts in. It really only makes sense to think of the cost as the direct Fiat contribution.

AFAIK there is no other manufacturer that sells 7000 cars annually with an MSRP over $200K. Lambo sells a third that many, and pretty much everyone else is in the noise. They made 250M Euros in net profit in 2012 and 2013, so they're doing something right. Ditch the F1 program and you might boost that profit in the short term, but 5, 10 years down the road?

In reply to codrus:

I don't think they will dump F1, it's the message that Fiat is less interested in dumping money, and want others to support Ferrari. That's the first time that I can see a message from Ferrari/Fiat that money is actually an issue.

That $500M is now more part of the $3B books instead of the +$100B of Fiat revenue.

How much of Fiat is owned by the Italian Government?

Seems a few teams have threatened to either boycott, or drop out after one lap from today's race.

http://espn.go.com/racing/f1/story/_/id/11802202/nico-rosberg-edges-lewis-hamilton-pole-us-grand-prix

berkeleying Sergio Perez, hits Raikkonnen and Sutil. What a stupid move on the opening berkeleying lap.

Not happy that first or second lap yellow is the expectation now rather than the exception.

Well now, that was a pretty racy event, at least past 3rd place, anyway. Unless his car blows up, it looks like Lewis Hamilton will be 2014 champ. At least Rosberg kept it interesting for quite some time and who knows what might happen in the next few events. Many people questioned Felipe Massa's abilities after his head injury, myself included. Looks like all he needed was a change of scenery. Always nice when a driver gets to resurrect a career that's stalled out.

Got back from Austin a couple hours ago. No evidence there of the so-called boycott. The news sources are all over the place, so it is hard to tell how real it was. Supposedly Bernie has admitted the system is berkeleyed up, but he doesn't know how to fix it.

Force India May as well have boycotted, they were out of the race pretty early.

SnowMongoose wrote: Not happy that first or second lap yellow is the expectation now rather than the exception.

Actually they're doing a lot better with the first lap crashes than they used to be. 15 years ago, it seemed like every other race featured a major crash at turn 1, followed by a red flag, followed by 3 or 4 drivers taking the restart in the spare car.

Basil Exposition wrote: Force India May as well have boycotted, they were out of the race pretty early.

LMAO

Fun race.

Good to see another great pass by Hamilton for the lead and win. Rosberg can see it slipping away. He seems broken by the pressure. He wasn't ready for the intensity of the media asking him why Hamilton is faster? Why is he always beaten in on track battles with Hamilton? What do you think made you slower than Lewis today? And Hamilton is just better at beating him in wheel to wheel dices.

I have a racing friend that could always pass and block me even though I was faster when we were lapping alone. I could pass most others but he seemed to just know how to get over on me. Hamilton seems to have that over Rosberg.

I just have a sinking feeling that Hamilton will have an engine failure on lap 1 at Abu Dhabi.

Good racing battles further back.

In reply to codrus:

Yeah I remember one race a red flag flew. Several drivers needed to get back to their spare car. Where the drivers were running back from somewhere on the back of the track had a clear path on the outside but a maze inside the track. One of the drivers got lost and the crane camera was watching him run back and forth!

And another time two drivers were held by course workers and released like some Track and Field race and one had to go the far end of the pits. While the other was on the near end. Lol crazy now thinking back to that stuff.

Advan046 wrote: Good to see another great pass by Hamilton for the lead and win.

I do not recall Rosberg making a single clean pass on Hamilton all season. Hamilton has passed Rosberg many times, but never the other way around unless you count the cluster berkeley where he punted Hamilton at Spa, or the out braked himself into oblivion at Russia as passes, but I don't. If Rosberg ends up winning due to double-Dhabi even he will think it's a crock of doodo

Also both Manor Racing (Marrusia) and 1Malaysia Racing (Caterham) are on the 2015 provisional entry list and both teams are making claims they plan to be at Double-Dhabi although they will miss Brazil this weekend

If they replace both drivers it's a win win for McLaren next year:

They're good: Looks like it was our drivers all along. No way the 2nd richest and experienced team can't build a car.

They're bad: With 2 new drivers and a new engine everyone is still getting used to the changes. It's a rebuilding year. There's always next year!

Felipe Nasr will partner Marcus Ericsson at Sauber next year, both Sutil and Gutierrez are out of a job. Maybe we should start an F1 2016 thread.

Not the best race yesterday from a passing point of view, but a great game of cat and mouse. Good drives by both the Merc drivers. Nico did what he had to do, Lewis pushed hard and had a spin but recovered and still leads WDC setting us up for Double-Dhabi. So now hte options are:
Lewis wins if he finishes 1st or 2nd no matter what Nico does.
If Nico wins Lewis must finish 2nd to win.
If Nico is 2nd Lewis must finish 5th or better to win.
If Nico is 3rd Lewis must finish 6th or better to win.
If Nico is 4th Lewis must finish 8th or better to win.
If Nico is 5th Lewis must finish 9th or better to win.
If Nico is 6th or below Lewis wins no matter what.

That's with the silly double points. If it were a normal race as it should be the situation would be:
If Nico won Lewis would only have to finish 6th or better to win.
If Nico was 2nd Lewis would only have to finish 10th or better to win.
If Nico was 3rd or below Lewis would win.
So if Nico wins only because of double points he will always have an asterisk next to his name in the books.

After those boys there was some great stuff going on. Massa getting a podium despite a 5 second stop and go for speeding in the pits AND then later going into the wrong pit. Button driving the wheels of that pig of a car, great race from him. I believe he's scored more points that anyone except the two Merc drivers over the last 5 races, I'll seriously have to reconsider my total dedication to McLaren if he's replaced by Alonso next year. Anyone who says that Vettel cant' race needs to re-watch that pass on Kimi early on, round the outside at a tricky spot. Great driving by him. Alonso on new tires, Kimi on old, great battle with a big berkeley you Alonso from the pits by not telling Kimi to move over. I was LOL'ing at that. So, not the most action packed from a passing point of view, but a good race all the same. berkeley Bernie, Ferrari and the whiners about the quality of the racing, this has been the best season in years from an on track action point of view even if we've only had three winners.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Not the best race yesterday from a passing point of view, but a great game of cat and mouse. Good drives by both the Merc drivers. Nico did what he had to do, Lewis pushed hard and had a spin but recovered and still leads WDC setting us up for Double-Dhabi. So now hte options are: Lewis wins if he finishes 1st or 2nd no matter what Nico does. If Nico wins Lewis must finish 2nd to win. If Nico is 2nd Lewis must finish 5th or better to win. If Nico is 3rd Lewis must finish 6th or better to win. If Nico is 4th Lewis must finish 8th or better to win. If Nico is 5th Lewis must finish 9th or better to win. If Nico is 6th or below Lewis wins no matter what. That's with the silly double points. If it were a normal race as it should be the situation would be: If Nico won Lewis would only have to finish 6th or better to win. If Nico was 2nd Lewis would only have to finish 10th or better to win. If Nico was 3rd or below Lewis would win. So if Nico wins only because of double points he will always have an asterisk next to his name in the books. After those boys there was some great stuff going on. Massa getting a podium despite a 5 second stop and go for speeding in the pits AND then later going into the wrong pit. Button driving the wheels of that pig of a car, great race from him. I believe he's scored more points that anyone except the two Merc drivers over the last 5 races, I'll seriously have to reconsider my total dedication to McLaren if he's replaced by Alonso next year. Anyone who says that Vettel cant' race needs to re-watch that pass on Kimi early on, round the outside at a tricky spot. Great driving by him. Alonso on new tires, Kimi on old, great battle with a big berkeley you Alonso from the pits by not telling Kimi to move over. I was LOL'ing at that. So, not the most action packed from a passing point of view, but a good race all the same. berkeley Bernie, Ferrari and the whiners about the quality of the racing, this has been the best season in years from an on track action point of view even if we've only had three winners.

no * if they continue to do this for the last race of the season

wbjones wrote: no * if they continue to do this for the last race of the season

I'm pretty sure they are getting rid of it for next year as it has been so universally slammed by the teams, the press and the fans.

probably … but 20 yrs from now, no one will remember that it was a double pts event

Advan046 wrote: Rosberg can see it slipping away. He seems broken by the pressure.

Maybe he's not so broken after all. The last race ought to be very interesting.

It will boil down to reliability, I figure. If neither car breaks, or is broken by the driver, Lewis wins the championship, and he knows he doesn't have to win the race...but he's going to go like hell to try, anyway.

I really liked his push on old tires, even if he did throw it away with the half spin.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Lewis wins if he finishes 1st or 2nd no matter what Nico does. If Nico wins Lewis must finish 2nd to win. If Nico is 2nd Lewis must finish 5th or better to win. If Nico is 3rd Lewis must finish 6th or better to win. If Nico is 4th Lewis must finish 8th or better to win. If Nico is 5th Lewis must finish 9th or better to win. If Nico is 6th or below Lewis wins no matter what.

You forgot one:
If Lewis takes out Nico in turn one and neither finish, Lewis wins.

How epic would THAT be?

-Rob

Let's hope that Lewis doesn't idolize Senna TOO much, then. That's a total dick move that is a terrible way to win a championship. Schumi tried it on Villeneuve years ago and I haven't respected him since.

Best quote about Abu Dhabi comes from Nico: "I'm still believing 100 per cent that I can make it but, of course, I will need some help from Felipe or Valtteri or Lewis himself."