F1 2015

I wonder how many males regularly beat Danica that aren't in the show or making money from driving race cars. A win and a pole are not awesome.

I mean berkeley, crashdenado has a win....

her avg. finish is ahead of 21 male drivers, with a high of 7th and 9th

so she's a mid-pack (43 starters) … are there men that could finish higher than she does, that don't GET to start … sure …but those same men would be finishing ahead of 21 other MEN … so picking on her because she's a woman and taking livelihood away from some men is a bit on the unacceptable side in this day-n-age

etifosi wrote:

wbjones wrote:

etifosi wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

other than the controversy about the Hill/Schumacher crash in the final race, I can't find anything to support this … can you provide a link to the cheaty part ?

A few years ago one of the '94 Benetton chassis that Schuey drove was for sale on ebay & the seller said it had a sub-menu on the steering wheel that you could use to bring up Launch Control. http://forums.autosport.com/topic/118536-schueys-b194-on-ebay/ There were many suspected shenanigans that season & many are still butt-hurt and like Adian, view that Hill was the "rightful" champion that year. I wonder what a "rightful" championship trophy case looks like! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_controversy

I wonder what "illegal" selections there were on Hill's car ?

Even though I am not a big fan of the Bills (Williams), I must comment that I do not believe they were/are cheaters. Outright cheating seems to have diminished greatly since Flavio's departure.

if Schumacher was the only one suspected of "cheating" then this is an acceptable conclusion … but (bolded above) it appears that there were many that were suspect … other than "belief" and because of "many suspected cheaters" it's hard to take as gospel that there weren't any problems with Hill's in particular … and I'm not accusing Hill's team of cheating … just looking at the odds

wbjones wrote: her avg. finish is ahead of 21 male drivers, with a high of 7th and 9th so she's a mid-pack (43 starters) … are there men that could finish higher than she does, that don't GET to start … sure …but those same men would be finishing ahead of 21 other MEN … so picking on her because she's a woman and taking livelihood away from some men is a bit on the unacceptable side in this day-n-age

I think you misunderstood me. I meant she made it up from the lower formulas even though faster more consistent drivers did not.

I would wonder the same thing if a midpack driver in indylights somehow makes the show and the 1st or 2nd race driver doesn't.

That is my point.

wvumtnbkr wrote:

wbjones wrote: her avg. finish is ahead of 21 male drivers, with a high of 7th and 9th so she's a mid-pack (43 starters) … are there men that could finish higher than she does, that don't GET to start … sure …but those same men would be finishing ahead of 21 other MEN … so picking on her because she's a woman and taking livelihood away from some men is a bit on the unacceptable side in this day-n-age

I think you misunderstood me. I meant she made it up from the lower formulas even though faster more consistent drivers did not. I would wonder the same thing if a midpack driver in indylights somehow makes the show and the 1st or 2nd race driver doesn't. That is my point.

Cash, or marketability. Michael Waltrip and Kyle Petty had cup rides for a couple of decades...

sorry … you're right … I misunderstood .. my bad …

keep in mind that there are several in F1 that weren't top ranked drivers in the lower formulas …

wbjones wrote:

etifosi wrote:

wbjones wrote:

etifosi wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

other than the controversy about the Hill/Schumacher crash in the final race, I can't find anything to support this … can you provide a link to the cheaty part ?

A few years ago one of the '94 Benetton chassis that Schuey drove was for sale on ebay & the seller said it had a sub-menu on the steering wheel that you could use to bring up Launch Control. http://forums.autosport.com/topic/118536-schueys-b194-on-ebay/ There were many suspected shenanigans that season & many are still butt-hurt and like Adian, view that Hill was the "rightful" champion that year. I wonder what a "rightful" championship trophy case looks like! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_controversy

I wonder what "illegal" selections there were on Hill's car ?

Even though I am not a big fan of the Bills (Williams), I must comment that I do not believe they were/are cheaters. Outright cheating seems to have diminished greatly since Flavio's departure.

if Schumacher was the only one suspected of "cheating" then this is an acceptable conclusion … but (bolded above) it appears that there were many that were suspect … other than "belief" and because of "many suspected cheaters" it's hard to take as gospel that there weren't any problems with Hill's in particular … and I'm not accusing Hill's team of cheating … just looking at the odds

In 1994 I had no cable & would have a friend record the races on VHS(still have the tapes), which I would watch over & over as I had no cable.

Based on living through the time, reviewing the evidence available today and the subsequent actions/words/deeds of the 2 drivers and 2 teams in question - I have to defend Damon Hill and Williams' integrity from your "guilty by association" assumptions. This is mostly because of my absolute idolization of Graham Hill & thus disbelief that the son of Graham would ever stand for anything less than fair-play. Other than being a dickwad to his drivers in general & killing Senna, I've got nothing against him and I can't recall Frank William's ever being involved in "cheating".

Benetton's handing Mike the lead through lightning-fast fueling (cheating that was later determined to be not-cheating), the availability of a cheat-mode for starts that MAY OR MAY NOT explain some scintillating Schuey starts, and Senna's auditory-forensic assertion of TC on the B 194 may all play in to the butt-hurt crowd's continued (mis)belief that Hill should have been '94 Champ.

I was going to continue with my defense of Michael but don't feel it's necessary as it won't change anyone's opinions nor would it's conclusions ask to change history. That plus wife mad due to wasting time "chatting with my friends".

Jules Bianchi passed.

etifosi wrote: In 1994 I had no cable & would have a friend record the races on VHS(still have the tapes), which I would watch over & over as I had no cable. Based on living through the time, reviewing the evidence available today and the subsequent actions/words/deeds of the 2 drivers and 2 teams in question - I have to defend Damon Hill and Williams' integrity from your "guilty by association" assumptions. This is mostly because of my absolute idolization of Graham Hill & thus disbelief that the son of Graham would ever stand for anything less than fair-play. Other than being a dickwad to his drivers in general & killing Senna, I've got nothing against him and I can't recall Frank William's ever being involved in "cheating". Benetton's handing Mike the lead through lightning-fast fueling (cheating that was later determined to be not-cheating), the availability of a cheat-mode for starts that MAY OR MAY NOT explain some scintillating Schuey starts, and Senna's auditory-forensic assertion of TC on the B 194 may all play in to the butt-hurt crowd's continued (mis)belief that Hill should have been '94 Champ. I was going to continue with my defense of Michael but don't feel it's necessary as it won't change anyone's opinions nor would it's conclusions ask to change history. That plus wife mad due to wasting time "chatting with my friends".

I was a BRM fan and Graham Hill fan as a HS'er … got my F1 fix from the monthly reports in R&T

and while I feel that Damon wouldn't cheat either … there will always be the "if they're all cheating, and I'm keeping up with them, then odds are I'm cheating also" attitude … and we'll probably never know (unless Frank someday confesses … LOL )

my point was that, just like bicycle racing … you probably had to cheat to have a chance …

I wonder what "features" will be revealed about the MB cars years from now.

z31maniac wrote: Jules Bianchi passed.

E36 M3, just saw this.

In discussing costs of F1 and pay drivers v. talent getting someone to the top rung.....

Cost of Getting into F1

I always knew it was expensive and had the discussion early with my son (who wanted to be an F1 driver) that the dream of getting there will be impossible. (nothing like crushing the dreams of an 8-year old....)

As I told him, the odds are stacked against him:

1) I'm not a multi-millionare
2) We don't live in Europe
3) His last name doesn't end in a vowel.

So, he's decided to work the other angle and get a few engineering degrees and break into the sport that way.

-Rob

Hungary

Will McLaren easily beat the Manor cars?

Is Hamilton going to crack or pull through?

Force India taking a big step or not?

Can Ferrari capitalize on a hot weather race again?

I wish Sauber would get a multi billion dollar sponsor, the guys deserve a Sauber dominant era.

Ramblings complete.

Will Martin Brundle declare Nico to be "Hungry" ?

rob_lewis wrote: In discussing costs of F1 and pay drivers v. talent getting someone to the top rung..... Cost of Getting into F1 I always knew it was expensive and had the discussion early with my son (who wanted to be an F1 driver) that the dream of getting there will be impossible. (nothing like crushing the dreams of an 8-year old....) As I told him, the odds are stacked against him: 1) I'm not a multi-millionare 2) We don't live in Europe 3) His last name doesn't end in a vowel. So, he's decided to work the other angle and get a few engineering degrees and break into the sport that way. -Rob

Tell him to check out Indy car racing IT's been a while since the days of Sea Bass, Villeneuve and JPM, but I think Indy car is on the ascendance again and we will see people migrate from Indy to F1 again soon. Early Kart career $100-$200K to cover the next 5-6 years

Skip Barber Series, Summer and Winter series, Approx. $3.5K per weekend (two races), plus travel etc. Call it $5K per weekend. Six weekends for the Winter series and 8 for the Summer. Call it $70K, allow $20K for damage, but to offset that if he's going to make it to the top he should win at least $20K back to net out at $70K

Then comes US F2000, a full season can cost anywhere from $150-$250K

Then comes Pro Mazda at around $350K for the season.

Up until now he's only spent one year in each formula since karting, assuming he started Skip Barber at 14 he's now 17 and ready for Indy Lights, he's probably going to need two seasons here. Costs are a bit more unknown with the new car, but the internet seems to indicate a full top level drive is going to be $750K, I bet there are shoe string operations out there where you could do the year for $500K if you don't hit or get hit by anything/one else. That's impossible BTW if you watch any of the races.

So, he's now 19 and ready for Indy Car, he/you/the bank/sponsors now have somewhere between $1.5 and $3.8 Million tied up in his career. Assuming he's going to be good enough to get a drive in F1 one day he will have been finishing 1st in every championship, possibly with the occasional 2nd. So he'll have teams interested in him. don't forget that winning the Indy Lights championship now gets you a funded driver in the Indy 500, I bet he could get a decent, if not top seat if he could bring $1.5M to the table. So there you are, for something like $3-5M he can make it to the top over here, rather than spending the equivalent of $8-9M in Europe. A relative bargain :)

Either that or point out that Randy Pobst started out in Autocross and is now a pro driver. He may ‘only’ make a couple of hundred K aa year, but hey, it’s better than paying to race 

Advan046 wrote: Hungary Will McLaren easily beat the Manor cars? Is Hamilton going to crack or pull through? Force India taking a big step or not? Can Ferrari capitalize on a hot weather race again? I wish Sauber would get a multi billion dollar sponsor, the guys deserve a Sauber dominant era. Ramblings complete.

Hamilton won't "crack". He's not a delicate diva, he's a multiple world champion who knows how to win, driving the best car on the grid. There's a lot of manufactured drama in the press, but it's just that - manufactured. Hamilton's problem is that there's another driver who's pretty darn good in that same car. Nico will win some races occasionally because of it. But he won't (and doesn't) win as many as Hamilton.

Now, Alonso. He's starting to show some cracks. Button seems to be able to keep his head together, but Alonso not so much.

Since I started following Lewis Hamilton back in the 2003 Formula Renault UK season he has had moments of uncharacteristically bad racing. He wasn't kidding too much about Silverstone being his first perfect pit call. I have seen him make some bad calls in a bunch. He always has the strength and intelligence to regroup. I say crack because he seems to get frazzled by non racing things and it snowballs into him performing under his capacity for a while.

I hope he won't crack. Everything I see about his demeanor says he won't crack. But I still wonder if Monaco and Nicole are eating away at him no matter what he is saying in the press.

Hamilton has won Hungry 4 times already. He's car went up in flames in quali last year so he started at the back of the grid and finished 3rd on a hard to pass circuit. Anyone who bets against Hamilton for this race is a blind hater. Like him or not, he does really well here in any car. He's in the best car on the grid and his team mate has never finished better than 4th here even when starting from pole.

Hammy was hot headed in the past, but we've seen non of that this year. Nico has impressed me with his resilience, but he's not match for Lewis at this race no matter what you think over the course of the season.

Happy cake day to Claire Williams.

Total Hamilton Domination in Qualifying. The start may settle the race tomorrow. I am looking forward to it.

Row 8- Alonso, Button. Wow.

No spoilers, but I HIGHLY recommend watching today's race.

Must see TV!

Mercedes must be the most un-German like team in the history of motorsports. Were they on vacation during the entire German GP "break"?

That was an interesting race.

What we learned- when in front, Mercedes are super fast. When not, not so much.

Who did the most work in the last three weeks? IMHO, McLaren. Yes, Ferrari improved a lot, too- but in terms of relative improvement- I see it as McLaren.

edit- how could I forget Red Bull? Struggling all year to end up having two cars on the podium? wow.