F1 2015

Advan046 wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote:

Advan046 wrote: Does anyone understand the Virtual Safety Car thing? How can Nico be beside Ricciardo when he is supposed to maintain a 3s gap behind? I don't get it?

Nico always seems to do well from the VSC. I think he's anticipating the timing or delaying his response a bit - in a sport where a second is forever.

Being along side the car ahead instead of 3 seconds behind seems to more of a stretch of the rules instead of great reflexes. The VSC just seems out of control instead of doing what it should do which is allow the drivers to go around track safely.

Oh, I think he's stretching the rules. They've all got great reflexes. Nico is pushing the timing a bit.

Same as being able to restart the race in any corner you like,thats bullE36 M3.Field bunches and once on the main straight with the flag guy waving a green THEN its a restart.

F1 pulls so hard that even with the superhuman reflexes its a 10 car gap damn near instantly.

I think Nico needs to grow up,I also think this was payback for monaco

Just thinking, once that Verstappen kid figures things out, he might be pretty good at this.

My first watching of the Lewis/Nico turn one incident I thought Lewis just understeered in wet conditions. Second time I thought he purposefully pushed him wide. Third I thought the same, but then on the fourth time I saw they actually touched wheels and I'm not sure what happened. I think it was a bit of Lewis going too deep due to getting it wrong but then unwilling to do anything about it, Nico turning in and when Lewis was there saying berkeley it I've got nothing to lose and holding his line. I actually see the slight touch as fortuitous, if they hadn't bounced wheels then they may have interlocked wheels and both gone out.

Kvyat, what an amazing drive.....right up until he binned it on his own....AGAIN. He want be under threat from Mad Max Jr for the top drive at this rate.

The Honey Badger, what a drive.

Hulkenburg, brain fart or what dude.

Rossi Yeah

Button. Awesome, especially on a weekend where he wanted Alonso to walk all over him as Alonso had the new engine. Unfortunately even before Alonso's new engine went sour they were still well matched.

Sainz, great drive from the back of the grid.

Tell me again what's wrong with the current rule set? Nothing except costs I'd say. Yes changeable conditions made for a great first half, but the second half was still totally awesome and it was dry for that.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: My first watching of the Lewis/Nico turn one incident I thought Lewis just understeered in wet conditions. Second time I thought he purposefully pushed him wide. Third I thought the same, but then on the fourth time I saw they actually touched wheels and I'm not sure what happened. I think it was a bit of Lewis going too deep due to getting it wrong but then unwilling to do anything about it, Nico turning in and when Lewis was there saying berkeley it I've got nothing to lose and holding his line. I actually see the slight touch as fortuitous, if they hadn't bounced wheels then they may have interlocked wheels and both gone out.

I was confused as to the problem. When I saw the onboard, Hamilton got a much better jump off the start and was well alongside, even slightly ahead, of Nico by turn one. Granted, he seemed to make his turn much wider than maybe he had to, but I thought he had the right of way. Hearing an interview with Nico, Nico said something about halfway up the straight, he had the right of way? I also heard Riccardo say that in the drivers meeting, they've talked about who has the right of way in a turn and it was a similar scenario.

So, because of the high speed and danger, do F1 drivers start passes much earlier than a turn and if you're not alongside some distance before the turn, you don't have the right of way? That seems different from other racing that I've watched.

-Rob

Nico was moving over pretty aggressively, it sure looked like the cars were side by side well before the turn to me. He was making a play, Lewis didn't flinch and kept his line. Didn't make any difference in the long run but it sure could have ended badly for both cars.

At one point, Jenson Button set the fastest lap of the race. Cue much cheering from Janel and myself as well as the guy in the BAR Honda shirt in front of us.

I have seen Hamilton blow many a critical turn, heck China 2007!. One of his failings. After several reviews of the tape I think he just did it again. Just like later in the race as he just finished his outlap trying to get past one of the redbulls into T1 and even though the redbull was well out of the pits before him, Hamilton still overcooked T1.

rob_lewis wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: My first watching of the Lewis/Nico turn one incident I thought Lewis just understeered in wet conditions. Second time I thought he purposefully pushed him wide. Third I thought the same, but then on the fourth time I saw they actually touched wheels and I'm not sure what happened. I think it was a bit of Lewis going too deep due to getting it wrong but then unwilling to do anything about it, Nico turning in and when Lewis was there saying berkeley it I've got nothing to lose and holding his line. I actually see the slight touch as fortuitous, if they hadn't bounced wheels then they may have interlocked wheels and both gone out.

I was confused as to the problem. When I saw the onboard, Hamilton got a much better jump off the start and was well alongside, even slightly ahead, of Nico by turn one. Granted, he seemed to make his turn much wider than maybe he had to, but I thought he had the right of way. Hearing an interview with Nico, Nico said something about halfway up the straight, he had the right of way? I also heard Riccardo say that in the drivers meeting, they've talked about who has the right of way in a turn and it was a similar scenario. So, because of the high speed and danger, do F1 drivers start passes much earlier than a turn and if you're not alongside some distance before the turn, you don't have the right of way? That seems different from other racing that I've watched. -Rob

what I saw, and still feel like I'm seeing … is that Hamilton did get a jump at the start .. and did have the advantage going into T1 … but I also saw it as a d**k move because I didn't see him make ANY attempt to take the corner with anything approaching a normal line … now he can claim understeer all he wants .. but the slow mo. video I saw showed zero wheel movement until he'd run Rosberg nearly off the track … the the front wheels started to turn … and of course the understeer show up and both went wide … but he had made his point by then … sorry dude you ain't going to lead this race into T2

I just think it's badass on the first turn of the race Lewis risked both cars coming together. That's why I like the guy, he makes his own destiny.

In reply to wbjones:

Question- you expected to see Hamilton try to take a normal line going into turn 1. And a normal line into one is from the right side of the track. With Rosberg in the middle of the track- which blocks Hamilton from moving over to try to take a normal line- how could you expect him to make an attempt at that line?

Actually, I will suggest that Rosberg missed a prime opportunity to go under him. It was pretty obvious what Hamilton was going to do- and drivers were trying that same move at various places around the track at various times, only to be undercut by the driver they just passed.

Also- it's not as if Hamilton was the only one who overcooked turn one.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to wbjones: Question- you expected to see Hamilton try to take a normal line going into turn 1. And a normal line into one is from the right side of the track. With Rosberg in the middle of the track- which blocks Hamilton from moving over to try to take a normal line- how could you expect him to make an attempt at that line? Actually, I will suggest that Rosberg missed a prime opportunity to go under him. It was pretty obvious what Hamilton was going to do- and drivers were trying that same move at various places around the track at various times, only to be undercut by the driver they just passed. Also- it's not as if Hamilton was the only one who overcooked turn one.

sorry … by that I meant he made zero attempt to turn towards the apex … he was aimed for the parking lot … I realized that the "normal" attempt for the corner, as for most corners, is outside inside outside … unless you're making a pass then it's outside (as much as you can) dive under, complete the pass (while, I admit pushing your opponent farther out than they might be comfortable with) and track out … what I saw was no attempt at turning in until he knew he had Rosberg parked in Lot D … of something

that's all I meant … there were 4 other cars that turned under Hamilton at T1 while he was ensuring that Rosberg was out of the pic.

I haven't read many posts here so I'll just post my thoughts.

I dislike Hamilton. I use to like him when he first came into F1 and his head still fit in a normal sized helmet. His ego and attitude has just gone way off and I can't respect him. I wouldn't even say he's one of the best currently on the grid, I would put Alonso and Vettel ahead of him. Now I don't like Nico either, I would rather see Nico win but both act immature. Nico just gets most of the hate for it.

While Mercedes pretty much dominated it's refreshing to see Ferrari coming back up and Vettel as well. It just seems right when the top step is German and Italian. I was a Schumacher fan...so...haha I wish Williams were running stronger this season, Bottas is one to watch.

In reply to wbjones:

Ok, that makes more sense. It's not the first time Hamilton strong armed Rosberg, and he still gets butthurt over it.

I'm sure if Nico braked earlier to tray an over/under move, Lewis would have covered that, too. Classic sailing move.

It sure helped that (based on the Red Bulls) Nico had a really bad start.

In reply to simontibbett:

To be clear, exactly which driver consistently acts mature?

The only one I can think of is Ricciardo. Other than that, most have displayed some kind of ego driven tantrum at one point or another. Unless you think Fernando was just being clever when he said he'd pull in as soon as he dropped out of 11th. Vettel- well, we've seen enough times when he doesn't get his way. Others make bad mistakes on the track that consistently cost them.

I think he was maybe trying to save what he could of the engine (the latest and greatest from Honda) if he dropped out of the points … as in "what's the use of maybe going kapowie and getting less data"

at least that's my take on his comment

oh … and alphadriver … I could easily be wrong … that's just how I was seeing it in the slo-mo video I saw

In reply to wbjones:

Your interpretation is fair. I'm just calling it covering Nico's moves to keep the corner. Be it turn early or late. Lewis had the corner.

If Nico had won that race, nobody would give one flying flip what happened in turn one, lap one.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to simontibbett: To be clear, exactly which driver consistently acts mature? The only one I can think of is Ricciardo. Other than that, most have displayed some kind of ego driven tantrum at one point or another. Unless you think Fernando was just being clever when he said he'd pull in as soon as he dropped out of 11th. Vettel- well, we've seen enough times when he doesn't get his way. Others make bad mistakes on the track that consistently cost them.

I will agree most drivers in F1 have some immature moments. That comes with any professional sport really. Competitive people can come across that way or act that way. I really consider Mercedes to have two of the worst. I also get being mad or fired up about something. Even Vettel has had his moments though I still say Lewis and Nico easily top everyone. lol Even Alonso being mad this year I get 100%, I'd be frustrated and quite pissed too.

The thing with Hamilton is he makes such a big deal out of things that he gets the entire world to be behind him no matter what. For example Spa last year with Nico accidentally clipping him and then playing sad boy and Nico getting the sharp end of the stick for what was an accident and if it wasn't Nico is worth quite a lot with that precision driving. Hamilton also plays the whole "had the hard life" growing up thing and all that, sure you weren't born with a silver spoon but come on man....

I guess it doesn't matter though, racing is racing, if the racing is good I don't really care, it's just with F1 you see and hear so much off the track.

simontibbett wrote: The thing with Hamilton is he makes such a big deal out of things that he gets the entire world to be behind him no matter what. For example Spa last year with Nico accidentally clipping him and then playing sad boy and Nico getting the sharp end of the stick for what was an accident and if it wasn't Nico is worth quite a lot with that precision driving.

It wasn't an accident, Nico said so at the time. The story changed later on, but that's what he said initially.

It wasn't precision driving, it was just luck that it turned out to hurt Hamilton significantly more than Rosberg.

In reply to simontibbett: I guess that's how you see it through your glasses.

To me, a lot of the hubbub about Hamilton v. Rosberg was amplified by many times by the media trying to make something that's worth reading.

In reply to alfadriver:

The media have a played a huge part in the drama. Everyone has seen the clip where Rosberg throws a hat at Hamilton but few have seen where Lewis rather flippantly first throws it at a sulking team mate who had just thrown away his season's last chance at a WDC. Neither action did much to convey "maturity".

Maybe Nico is still pissy from Lewis tagging him in the nutsack with a water bottle while he was juggling so tossing anything his way doesn't go over well?

Nico blew the lead. Anything Lewis may or may not have done on the first lap means nothing.

Seb didn't look super happy to have finished third after starting deep in the field, either, and he shouldn't. He didn't win the championship, every race, and lead every lap, which is his goal. To his credit, he was mature enough to seem like he meant it when he congratulated Lewis, unlike Nico.

Last, of course Lewis has an ego the size of the great outdoors. He wouldn't be where he is without it. Neither would Nico, or Seb, or Ricciardo, or Senna, or Prost, or Fangio, or Henry Damn Ford, for that matter.

All top level drivers are selfish egomaniacs. You pretty much have to be to get to that level. Being the nice guy that everyone likes only worked for David Coulthard and Rubens Barichello