F150/250 question for Alfa

chandler said:

I find it interesting that the most asked about car on the forum is the F150, I was never a Ford guy until I was assigned a 2018 F150 in 2018. 5.0, 10spd, 4x4 super crew. It was great in almost every way for 162,000 miles. 24,000 of those were towing a trailer. 18.9 combined mpg for that time. When it came time to order a replacement in May '21 I requested the same truck but as a '21. It arrived as the same truck in April '22 and has 13,000 miles on it. The trans is programmed differently and I don't like it nearly as much. It hunts more but otherwise has been much the same. After reading all these threads it seems the overall is that there are duds but they are few and far between. 
 

Edit: the new truck is 22.3mpg on the miles so far.

I bought a total of 22 new Chevy's over my lifetime. My last one I owned for 20 years and 371,xxx miles.  It slowly rusted away but was mechanically original when the junkyard came to pick it up. Good motor, trans, rear end suspension ( even shocks) all untouched. I spent a total of $1000 in repairs that whole time.  
   Yet I bought a  2016 F150 4x4  5.0 V8  for my last one.   It's averaged 20.1 mpg over its 82,000 miles.  Zero repairs so far.  

We haven't done a bunch of mountain towing but have done a few decent size climbs and a lot of moderate hills in our ecoboost. With the ten speed it basically never drops any lower than sixth gear, especially if you help ease it into the climb with some extra throttle and some early manual downshifts. I don't remember what rpm it ends up at but it's not exactly pinging the limiter, I'd guess 3500-4k max but that's just a guess I really don't remember. It's a torque heavy turbo engine, it likes low rpms almost as much as a diesel. One thing I will say is that the trans tuning could really use some work for hill towing. Left to its own devices on cruise control it'll just chug uphill until it drops too far below the set speed and then drop a bunch of gears and accelerate back up to speed...as you're still climbing the hill. But if you're active and force it to downshift a little early it'll happily run up hill at 1-2mph under the set speed and at least one gear higher than it would have normally, and that seems to be good for like a 10-20% mileage improvement.

dps214 said:

...It's a torque heavy turbo engine, it likes low rpms almost as much as a diesel...

When heading up a long medium hill in my 2013 EB, it's pretty nuts to see it doing so at 1,100 rpm in 6th gear and not losing speed! 

With the altitude involved, you'll be best served by something with turbos, I think.  The 5.0, 6.2, 7.3 will all lose noticeable power at 8000 feet.  The 3.5 EB or a 6.7 will hold up much better in that respect. 

Speaking of which, I got to drive a friend's F-350 Tremor 6.7 that he picked up as an upgrade from his (2012) 3.5 EB F-150.  The F-150 was fairly cushy and car-like (although the rear end didn't ride great un-loaded).  The 350 surprisingly drives almost as well, just without any hint of that cushiness.  Unloaded, it's very stiff, but not awful.  Steering is surprisingly good and while it doesn't feel any quicker than the 3.5 EB was, I'm pretty sure it is faster un-loaded (also has a 10sp instead of a 6sp). 

Those super duty tremors look the business, like a big Tonka, which appeals to my inner 6 year old. Especially with the big diesel- I'd never have to worry about any of the capacity- and it's interesting you note the comfort. I'd assumed it would be brutal unloaded. 
 

My hesitation is twofold-

1- the new diesels are soooo bloody complicated, and I'm terrified something bad happening costing untold $$$$$$.  
B. The brodozer look that appeals to my six year old inner child is also very attention getting and some read it as a mobile middle finger- both those driving it and the driver of the Prius next to them.  I'm not sure I want that kind of notoriety.  
3. It will have to do grocery duty probably once a week- I could make this work but it's a little less convenient to start and run that big boy for a 7 minute round trip- is the myth about running diesels for a short burst true?  
 

On the other hand....

1. 5/100k warranty on the diesel. And I could buy extended. 
B. That's not really my problem, and for a full sized truck, most reports say they are actually getting something like 19mpg combined.  
3. my current truck is a crew cab 6.5' bed already and I don't think the big boys are actually that much wider or longer. 

1.  Very complicated.  Very expensive when something breaks.  But they are pretty damn reliable.  A coworker has 320,000 on a 2015 Duramax, and it has needed some work on the emissions equipment to the tune of $5k-ish in its lifetime.  He has owned it since new.  Apples and oranges, but from what I've seen they'll go a long time with only "minor" needs.

B.  I live in the midwest.  Things are different here, but if you don't drive like a dick, people don't think anything of big trucks.  If you drive like a dick, it doesn't matter what vehicle you're driving.  People think you're a dick.

3.  Again, midwest... Big trucks are easy to live with here.  Maybe you park farther from the entrance to the store.  No big deal.  I don't know how that translates to bigger cities.

Everyone I know with a modern diesel drives a lot of miles, and most of them get a workout pulling heavyish trailers occasionally.  As long as you limit the idle time and don't just drive to church and the grocery store like a grandma, you should be fine, but you haven't really described the ideal use case for diesels.

D.  The gas trucks are really good and less scary once they are out of warranty.

The Tremor package on the F-250 isn't that different from the standard 4x4 package.  Other than cosmetics, I think the only differences are 35" tires (which fit exactly the same on the non-Tremor trucks), electronic locking rear diff (which might also come with the much cheaper FX4 package?) and slightly taller front suspension (easily accomplished with a leveling kit and probably not even needed).  Even the cosmetic stuff is pretty easily accomplished with aftermarket gear.  I'm considering making mine more Tremorish, I think the tires and the front plastic valance are 80% of the look.

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

The Tremor package on the F-250 isn't that different from the standard 4x4 package.  Other than cosmetics, I think the only differences are 35" tires (which fit exactly the same on the non-Tremor trucks), electronic locking rear diff (which might also come with the much cheaper FX4 package?) and slightly taller front suspension (easily accomplished with a leveling kit and probably not even needed).  Even the cosmetic stuff is pretty easily accomplished with aftermarket gear.  I'm considering making mine more Tremorish, I think the tires and the front plastic valance are 80% of the look.

It adds a few other things too.  You also get a front LSD, some skid plates, better shocks, relocated t-case and diff vents.  That said, most of the stuff other than the diffs is fairly easily added.  

Buying new it seems like it's probably worth purchasing the package if I went that direction then?

rslifkin said:

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

The Tremor package on the F-250 isn't that different from the standard 4x4 package.  Other than cosmetics, I think the only differences are 35" tires (which fit exactly the same on the non-Tremor trucks), electronic locking rear diff (which might also come with the much cheaper FX4 package?) and slightly taller front suspension (easily accomplished with a leveling kit and probably not even needed).  Even the cosmetic stuff is pretty easily accomplished with aftermarket gear.  I'm considering making mine more Tremorish, I think the tires and the front plastic valance are 80% of the look.

It adds a few other things too.  You also get a front LSD, some skid plates, better shocks, relocated t-case and diff vents.  That said, most of the stuff other than the diffs is fairly easily added.  

And the tremor actually sits higher, something like 1".

my next truck, will be a f250 lariat tremor 7.3 gas with the optional warn  winch.  Then I'd swap out the black wheels for some that are not black! 

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

electronic locking rear diff (which might also come with the much cheaper FX4 package?) 

The diff is available as a standalone option.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

electronic locking rear diff (which might also come with the much cheaper FX4 package?) 

The diff is available as a standalone option.

Yeah, my 2018 F150 had it.

Teh E36 M3 said:

Buying new it seems like it's probably worth purchasing the package if I went that direction then?

If you want the extra off-road focused stuff, then probably.  But IIRC the different springs and sway bars in the Tremor package do slightly reduce payload and tow rating.  Not enough to matter if you're cross shopping with 1/2 tons though. 

The damn order books opened for the f150 last Monday and I'm still undecided. Reading the camper/track thread didn't help- having a slide in to sleep and a trailer to tow your car seems damn ideal and probably impossible with an f150. 

bigeyedfish said:

... Big trucks are easy to live with here.  Maybe you park farther from the entrance to the store.  No big deal.  I don't know how that translates to bigger cities.

Answer: Not well. Parking lot real estate costs more so planners scale down the slots so that they fit small cars the way midwest lots fit trucks (been there and seen it). I end up with not much room between me and the cars on either side, and... oh yeah, my one big grip about my 2013 F150...

The rear half-doors that open forward require opening the front doors a fair ways in order to clear their swing. Very annoying when trying to load the rear area in a crowded Costco lot:

1. Open driver's door
2. Open rear door to get it outside the swing of the front door
3. Close driver's door
4. Close rear door to walk to back of truck to shopping cart
5. Carry stuff back to driver's door
6. Open rear door
7. Load stuff
8. Close rear door
9. Walk back to shopping cart
10. Rinse and repeat

Not sure what the answer is short of taking a hatchback instead, but not all of us have multiple cars suited for different tasks. And yes, I sort of knew what I was in for getting a full size truck. To get back on topic, while I'm not sure of the F250's dimensions, it's not going to be any better.

kb58 said:

Not sure what the answer is short of taking a hatchback instead, but not all of us have multiple cars suited for different tasks.

Tonneau cover and put the groceries in the bed?

But yeah, I know what you mean.  Here in the bay area, almost any shopping center built in the last 10 years has really small spaces.  Even Home Depot, which is the one place you'd expect it to be easy to park a truck.  It's not just the parking space width either, the lanes are also narrower, enough so that it's difficult to make the 90 degree turn in my F-250.  The overhead camera view is a lifesaver here.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

... The overhead camera view is a lifesaver here.

 

Oh well, look who's here, Mr. FancyPants and his "overhead camera."

What year did those become available? Having a 9-yr old truck, I'm apparently no longer one of the cool kids.

Teh E36 M3 said:

The damn order books opened for the f150 last Monday and I'm still undecided. Reading the camper/track thread didn't help- having a slide in to sleep and a trailer to tow your car seems damn ideal and probably impossible with an f150. 

After this weekend in the 100 degree heat, I'm 99% sure I'm going to do the slide in camper. I've been checking out friends' trailers with A/C etc. but I've decided that I just don't want to dwell in the same box where race stuff happens. Too much dirt and stink. 

kb58 said:

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

... The overhead camera view is a lifesaver here.

 

Oh well, look who's here, Mr. FancyPants and his "overhead camera."

What year did those become available? Having a 9-yr old truck, I'm apparently no longer one of the cool kids.

Heh, I dunno.  They started showing up on German cars around 2010, and have been trickling into other vehicles ever since.  Most automotive tech falls into the "yeah, that's kinda cool, but do I really need it?" category, but overhead view cameras are SUPER useful.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Heh, I dunno.  They started showing up on German cars around 2010, and have been trickling into other vehicles ever since.  Most automotive tech falls into the "yeah, that's kinda cool, but do I really need it?" category, but overhead view cameras are SUPER useful.

I think the F-150 got them when they had the redesign that went aluminum in 2015. 

I just installed a rear view camera so I could hook up trailers without getting in and out of the truck multiple times.  That was a revelation.  I better stay away from the overhead view cameras so I don't know what I'm missing.