Still waiting/hoping for the the Toyota Stout. Tacoma is too big. My truck needs are small......bicycles, gardening needs, beach stuff etc. Don't need a big bed, towing capacity or to be king of the hill. Oh ya, and reasonably priced (25K-30K) with kind of good mileage. Is that too much to ask?
In reply to Feedyurhed :
At this point I was a Prius or RAV4 hybrid based option. Though I secretly dream of VW doing a cabover style truck based on the EV Van.
eastsideTim said:Not to harsh your vibe, but isn't Toyota still of the opinion they will build what they build, and you'll take what you can get? So even if an option combo exists, it might not actually be available? It seems that's the way it was when I was looking at 1st gen Tundras. The dealership could not locate a low option RWD extended cab with towing package anywhere in the region.
Would be nice if they are willing to build some oddball combos, though.
There are 3 of the of the combo I want in 2 different colors within 25 miles.
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Feedyurhed :
At this point I was a Prius or RAV4 hybrid based option. Though I secretly dream of VW doing a cabover style truck based on the EV Van.
That would be the best case scenario if still affordable.
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Feedyurhed :
At this point I was a Prius or RAV4 hybrid based option. Though I secretly dream of VW doing a cabover style truck based on the EV Van.
Can't you get a Maverick in a hybrid setup or am I making that up?
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:eastsideTim said:Not to harsh your vibe, but isn't Toyota still of the opinion they will build what they build, and you'll take what you can get? So even if an option combo exists, it might not actually be available? It seems that's the way it was when I was looking at 1st gen Tundras. The dealership could not locate a low option RWD extended cab with towing package anywhere in the region.
Would be nice if they are willing to build some oddball combos, though.
There are 3 of the of the combo I want in 2 different colors within 25 miles.
Color me impressed. Hope there is enough demand that Toyota keeps making them.
Wow, $41k for basically a base level Tacoma. I've been waiting to see what Toyota prices the new 2025 4Runner, but based on the Tacoma pricing it seems like the 4Runner trailhunter will be around $65k and a TRD Pro closer to $70k. That's crazy considering the last generation TRD Pro was $52k...
I saw a new Tundy in Tennessee last week--someone had adhered big "Turbo" stickers to the sides of the cab. I thought for a minute, then realized the V8 was a thing of the past, so stock equipment . . . 'Twas not a visual improvement.
Why do Tacomas look like Silverados now?
The first gen taco that I owned required you to take a single or extended cab to get the manual transmission. The extended cab was my preference since it came with a decent sized bed. Unfortunately, I discovered that a rear facing baby seat wouldn't fit.
It was fun while it lasted.
I sat in these vs the ford ranger at a local auto show. They're nice. But my f150 is the same price. Has more power more space for my three kids and gets better gas mileage with the 2.7. Once the kids leave the house it'll be a ranger or taco.
I've owned both a ranger and a taco in the past. The Toyota tax is off putting and they are cramped. Ranger is rumerored to come with the 2.7 eco boost. That'll be a solid combo if available.
Fueled by Caffeine said:I've owned both a ranger and a taco in the past. The Toyota tax is off putting and they are cramped. Ranger is rumerored to come with the 2.7 eco boost. That'll be a solid combo if available.
I wouldn't mind cross shopping a 2.3 or 2.7 ecoboost Ranger if it had a manual transmission too. Ideally a 2.3 turbo/6mt/4x4 if that was a thing.
In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :
I understand the want for a manual but let me say this the 10 speed auto in my f150(same as ranger). Is magic. I've seen 27mpg unloaded and towing it's nearly always in the right gear. It's no Toyota so I did buy the extended warranty in case it pops.
Because of this thread i put a deposit on my first new vehicle in 22 years. A 2024 Tacoma SR with a 6 speed manual. Thanks for the tip gents. I should pick it up in 1-3 weeks.
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
I paid $46k (+ taxes and fees) for a new leftover F150 Lightning. 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, room for 6, factory navigation, heated seats, tows 7700 lbs and has a 9.6kW generator on board. Oh and I got 0% financing, probably bridging another $4000 of the difference between the two.
As a guy in his 50s I am frequently struck by the cost of everything! When I was in college at V6 ex cab 4x4 SR5 was a hair north of $20k. Wow.
(And I fully understand a full size electric truck vs a midsized truck are apples and oranges). My reference is more about what you get for the cost involved.
the old V6 was an absolute dog, made worse with unnecessarily high gearing (especially 1st & reverse) in the manual. It was also overpriced relative to the competition. What you got in return was a manual, which completely changes the character, reliability, and of course, that famous resale value. It was enough for me to pony up on a '22 (wasn't clear if the manual would stick around with the redesign) while I still had a chance, my first new vehicle. I still think it's an objectively bad deal and have a lot of gripes, but damn if I'm not a sucker for the driving experience a manual brings.
The new I4 delivers significantly more torque (40 ish lb-ft IRRC) at much lower RPM (peaks at 1700), while returning slightly better mileage, seems like a win all around to me. Reviews have been very positive.
Of course like everything, it's even more expensive, I think matching options put the new one around 5K+ more than my '22. If you want a manual in a truck that can tow anything north of 4K lbs, it's the only game in town. I'd like to drive one at some point, but despite the manual it doesn't seem to be calling me. At the point I'm into high 40's or low 50's, a Colorado ZR2 or Ranger Raptor brings a whole lot more hoonery to the table and would probably make up for living w/ an auto.
Fupdiggity said:the old V6 was an absolute dog
I've learned a couple things with my '23 6MT
1) It isn't really a "truck" engine. It is really a car engine and needs to be revved like one. Hold onto gears a little longer and give it more gas and it'll get out of Atkinson and wake up.
2) The Atkinson cycle and throttle mapping are crazy conservative. You really have to signal your intent (throttle and rpm) to get power instead of economy, and then it responds.
3) As an extension to #2 above, get brave with the throttle and it'll wake up. I haven't looked at the data, but it feels like 80% pedal is about 40% throttle. 100% pedal is 100% throttle though. The big problem with that is the factory floor mats (at least in my case) stop you at 80%-ish pedal. Trimming the floor mat (or removing) made a silly-huge improvement in towing power. I just don't understand how that happens.
Now that the truck and I are getting along better, I don't feel like it is nearly as underpowered as I did at first.
In reply to cyow5 :
toyota got burned with the floormat thing before lol
cyow5 said:Fupdiggity said:the old V6 was an absolute dog
I've learned a couple things with my '23 6MT
1) It isn't really a "truck" engine. It is really a car engine and needs to be revved like one. Hold onto gears a little longer and give it more gas and it'll get out of Atkinson and wake up.
2) The Atkinson cycle and throttle mapping are crazy conservative. You really have to signal your intent (throttle and rpm) to get power instead of economy, and then it responds.
3) As an extension to #2 above, get brave with the throttle and it'll wake up. I haven't looked at the data, but it feels like 80% pedal is about 40% throttle. 100% pedal is 100% throttle though. The big problem with that is the factory floor mats (at least in my case) stop you at 80%-ish pedal. Trimming the floor mat (or removing) made a silly-huge improvement in towing power. I just don't understand how that happens.
Now that the truck and I are getting along better, I don't feel like it is nearly as underpowered as I did at first.
Interesting on the floor mats, i'll have to check. By my rough butt-dyno I feel the opposite, like 50% of pedal is about 100%, and nothing really happens in the 2nd half of pedal travel. It has enough power (barely) if you rev the nuts off of it, which I don't really mind doing, but the tall gearing w/ the manual makes it really annoying when you're loaded.
Towed the E46 (probably about 5,500lbs w/ the Uhaul trailer) this weekend, you have to abuse the clutch quite a bit to take off from a start if there's an incline. Once your moving its OK, but i'm not shy about giving it the skinny pedal.
You're right about the mapping, it's probably my single biggest gripe with this powertrain. It's so lazy to respond, makes rev-matched downshifts an exercise in frustration. I can only assume this was an emissions trade off, but they clearly didn't put real development dollars into the tune.
In reply to Fupdiggity :
Mapping and laziness are actually separate - mapping is the lookup table that converts pedal position and rpm to throttle position. Laziness comes from a low-pass filter applied to the pedal position. But yes, both are done for emissions. Still, I have not had any issues pulling 4,500lbs (open steel trailer + Elise) a few times and 3,000lb (aluminum enclosed with go karts) a few times so far. Pulling the Elise in the enclosed trailer will happen for the first time next month, so we'll see how that goes. I even rev-match pretty frequently in day-to-day driving without complaint. Not sure if they changed any of the calibration between '22 and '23, but I really don't share your gripes. Not picking on you or discounting you in any way - I just wonder if it would help your case to step back and reassess your approach. Especially with rev-matching, every car has to be approached uniquely to get it 'right'.
It's like relationship therapy - if you both are on different pages, neither of you will be happy! Also like a real-world relationship, you can't ask the truck the change for you; you'll need to change for it, haha. Unless you slap on a supercharger.
Is the truck tariff still in effect? Because I'm amazed that with all the manufacturers out there, there isn't a single small body-on-frame pickup on the market. My perfect daily driver would be a circa 1990 Toyota Xtra cab with a few modern updates:
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:Is the truck tariff still in effect? Because I'm amazed that with all the manufacturers out there, there isn't a single small body-on-frame pickup on the market. My perfect daily driver would be a circa 1990 Toyota Xtra cab with a few modern updates:
I assume you're talking about the "chicken tax"? If so - yes, still in effect. That's why you get 4runners built in japan, but every truck sold in the US is built in north america. The Tacos primarily come out of Mexico now.
Side note, excellent truck. I had a '90 exactly like that (only black) about 15 years ago. definitely one I wish I'd held on to.
Fupdiggity said:
Side note, excellent truck. I had a '90 exactly like that (only black) about 15 years ago. definitely one I wish I'd held on to.
I gave mine to my sister when I made the jump to a 4runner. Two years later she sold it without offering it back to me. I'd love to still have that truck. Side note: it had a significant failure outside of warranty, but Toyota extended the warranty for me. That, gentlemen, is how you build loyalty.
From what I've read in the Tacoma at least, the new turbo i4 is leagues better than the old v6. Apprantly it makes some nice turbo sounds with the 6spd manual as well. Plus the manual has adaptive cruise control too which is nice.
In reply to J_D :
My 2020 manual has adaptive cruise control--this is not new. It's pretty cool--you can even shift without disengaging the system. It's nice to premptively downshift when you see a hill coming that you know it can't handle in 6th and not have to hit resume after the downshift then again on the upshift. It'll only do this in adaptive mode, though. With basic cruise control the clutch pedal disconnects the cruise control.
In reply to J_D :
The V6 also got adaptive cruise, but it is probably my least favorite "feature". I'm a huge CC user, and it has gotten me to use CC much less. You can disable the adaptive aspect, but that has to be done every time you engage CC. Instead, I cut the following distance to a minimum and still have to hover over the gas to stop it from slowing down for cars that already turned or changed lanes. The gains are also too low so it drops a ton of speed going uphill and gains illegal amounts of speed on the downhill. Again, I combat that by giving it some throttle help on the uphill.
it's nice that you can downshift and upshift under CC/ACC, but that feels a little rough on the clutch.
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