Fair price for 05/06 P71?

JFX001 wrote: ...so I would opt for an extremely cheap Catera for an LSX swap.

It's been done quite a few times, in fact the head of Ligenfelter Engineering or some such nonsense had one or made the parts for the conversion but ended up ebaying it...

Competitive at Autocross and Road Racing....really?

Really?

I think the appeal is to feel like a cop. With all that this entails.

To each their own.

Per (I like small cars)

Raze wrote:

JFX001 wrote: ...so I would opt for an extremely cheap Catera for an LSX swap.

It's been done quite a few times, in fact the head of Ligenfelter Engineering or some such nonsense had one or made the parts for the conversion but ended up ebaying it...

Yep....looked into the Lingenfelter kits. Everything is there other than the exhaust manifolds.

JY LS1 + Lingenfelter kit + ugly cheap non wanted under the radar ugly marketing flop cheap Catera = Q ship.

Now a LSX powered Catera...that's cool.

Per Schroeder wrote: Competitive at Autocross and Road Racing....really? Really? I think the appeal is to feel like a cop. With all that this entails. To each their own. Per (I like small cars)

There are quite a few p71 owners that get off on that. I find those kind of people embarrassing to share a hobby with but whatareyagonnado.

I like big, tough, simple, cheap. I bought my old Wagoneer for the same reasons.

Per,

OK, not competitive at autocross, but definitely the most fun! Even for the 4 passengers As for road racing, I still think it would do well. You can stuff 275's on all 4 corners without even rolling the fenders, factory trans/oil/power steering coolers, and the thing was made to drive around big sweeping interstates at 100+. It does 95 in 2nd gear for crying out loud!

I don't get the cop aspect. I used to be a federal officer (Coast Guard) but I sure don't want to be one now. My car has huge chrome tips, loud mufflers, GRM and SCCA stickers, and a civvie interior. Not to mention I'm a long-haired, goatee-sporting guy so I ain't fooling anybody.

Besides, the real reason to own a P71 is to tow your small car to tracks. I'm on the lookout for a trailer that will fit my RX-7 or any other future purchases (Miata, AMX, Camaro). Did I mention that a first-gen Rx-7 door actually fits in the trunk, laying down on the floor? The ones with window frames mind you. Also a Power Wheels H2 Hummer fits...

waiting for Cornell to off load in the fall, 3 years and 50-75K for $3-4k

Per Schroeder wrote: Competitive at Autocross and Road Racing....really? Really? I think the appeal is to feel like a cop. With all that this entails. To each their own. Per (I like small cars)

Me too. Add lightness...

P71 wrote: I don't get the cop aspect. I used to be a federal officer (Coast Guard) but I sure don't want to be one now.

In a past life, I was a heavy truck mechanic and driver, but wouldn't want to be either now. I don't get the guys with the diesel pickups with the vertical exhaust stacks. I think the cop thing and the truck thing are appealing to people who have never been the real thing. I have nothing against diesel pickups, but I wouldn't buy one unless I couldn't get a gas engined pickup that would meet my needs.

bravenrace wrote: I don't mean to offend anyone, but I still don't understand the appeal of these tanks. Sure they're somewhat heavy duty (and heavy in general), and cheap, but so are Mustangs, which are many other more capable cars. I've especially always found it a little strange that so many people on a board like this one are into these cars. Help me understand, paleeez.

I've been seriously looking at them lately because 2 grand will get me a car made in this century with working AC. Bonus points for being able to stretch my legs out (I'm 6'2"). I haven't owned a car like that yet.

You guys make good points. I'm not tall, so maybe that's part of it, as I don't need or want a big car. I can see these as an inexpensive all around car, but still have trouble with the part about autocrossing or open tracking them. If I could only have one car, it would be something smaller, lighter and faster, but that's me.

i wanted a big road trip/winter car. i only drive RWD in winter. my primary preference(which until last year i'd been them driving since 1998) - the 91-96 caprice - are hard to find anymore with low miles or not rotted out/beat to death. i love those cars - i'd much rather have a clean 9C1 caprice than my vic, but it was hard to argue with a 1999 v8 RWD anything with working AC, 64k miles, that wasn't a slug, and handled decent for $1800 and that was not rusted out or beat to death. for what it is they are good cars. the 4.6 is too small for a big car, the interior is pretty blah, but damn is the trunk huge.

i put a marauder lip spoiler on mine and painted it all black since it was black/white so i didn't look as much like a cop. i did keep the pushbars since they work great for pushing projects or disabled vehicles(vehicles with disabilities?) into the garage.

in my younger and more vulnerable years i put pushbars, black wheels, and antennas on my civvy caprice to look more like a cop. now that i'm not 17 anymore i understand that a cop who waves initially thinking you're a fellow officer then realizes he is wrong is probably going to be pissed off.

ewwwww, '99?

A p.i. top end swap might jolt your enthusiasm a little.

bravenrace,

I don't think any of us on GRM who have P71's have only one car. I have a 1st Gen Rx-7 as does belteshazzar, carkid has a Miata, and patgizz has at least 2 other cars. These are not our main forms of fun/competitiveness, but they will provide smile-inducing back-ups if the main "race" car is down.

I took mine to a few autocrosses last year and it was an absolute hoot. On long, non-technical courses it has enough torque to actually go mid-pack on street tires. Throw some slaloms or hairpins in and it's dead last. Though if you're running with a club that allows a little sliding/drifting and/or riders the fun factor is impossible to beat.

On the track it actually is very, very good. My instructor had a race-prepped E36 that couldn't touch the P71. PIR is nothing more than two really long straights with some big sweepers but the old girl handled well. Until you've taken one out on an HPDE you just don't realize how capable they are. 60 in first, 95 in second, 120ish in third...

I agree with the other guys though that an LT1-equipped 9C1 is better. I'd love to have a 96 Impala SS. Problem is all of those cars are rusted or expensive. For cheap, newish transportation that can actually tow you really can't beat the P71. That's it's draw though is the cheapness. If they were $5K or more I never would have even considered them, but at $2450 (what I paid) we're talking less than the taxes on a new car!

bravenrace wrote:

P71 wrote: I don't get the cop aspect. I used to be a federal officer (Coast Guard) but I sure don't want to be one now.

In a past life, I was a heavy truck mechanic and driver, but wouldn't want to be either now. I don't get the guys with the diesel pickups with the vertical exhaust stacks. I think the cop thing and the truck thing are appealing to people who have never been the real thing. I have nothing against diesel pickups, but I wouldn't buy one unless I couldn't get a gas engined pickup that would meet my needs.

Man I must not fit in anywhere. I own a one ton diesel dually for towing...it doesn't have stacks though. I have small cars, big cars, trucks, and motorcycles .....where do I belong?? It's interesting living with the typical stereotypes associated with the different types of vehicles. Seriously sometimes big cars are just fun. I bought my old 96 Impala SS because I wanted a nice road car that was quick and handled well and I would buy a P71 for the same reason. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to hit the drags or roadcourse with it from time to time, even though one of my other cars are more suited. The p71s are A LOT of car for the money.

Does the P71 usually come with an LSD?

I bought a '95 LS400 a year or two ago as my daily driver and it's been great, but turn off traction control and it's not anywhere near as fun as my old Roadmaster which had an LSD. Donuts and burnouts just aren't as fun with only one wheel smoking.

Locally, 2005 P71s from the State of Ohio go for around $3000 - $3500. The older they get, the cheaper they get, fast. I think the taxis aren't allowed to run cars past a certain age or something; even the most messed up of 2007 or 2008 P71s will go for a lot more than the 2005s.

Is there a significant difference between a 2003 and a 2005 P71? I know about the PI heads in 2002, but other than that no major changes come to mind in the 2000+ models.

Is the P71 any faster than the civilian Crown Vic? The 0-60 and 1/4 times for the civilian Crown Vic aren't all that impressive; my LS-400 is faster in both respects.

trac-loc is very common, I'm not sure if it's standard. There's an axle code in the door jamb to tell you what ratio and whether it's open or not.

I don't think a p71 is substantially faster than a civilian model. They're probably a little lighter due to a lack of options, and you get better gearing in the p71. Not many of the other differences would make them any faster. At least nothing I'm remembering.

IIRC an '05 is rated to have a little more hp than an 03, maybe from the different maf/airbox. I'm not sure. 239 instead of 250 I think. Either would be a fine car (for the money).

LSD is standard in real P71's (P71 VIN Code) but necessarily in cop cars (which can be P72 and P73). PI (Performance Improved) heads/intake started in 2001, not 2002. P71's are not faster (same HP?TQ) but are lighter (lack of options) and have better suspensions. 03+ got different frames, suspension, and steering. No other major changes from 01-09.

airbox and maf changed in '04

p71's come with 3.27's or 3.55's. I don't know if those are available in the civvy ones but I know a lot of them have 2.93 or worse RAR's.

I have a handful of full-size cars. I have my '01 P71 (paid $990), '93 Roadmaster wagon (paid $350) and '93 Roadmaster sedan (paid $350). I certainly would have gotten something other than a Crown Victoria if I was spending anywhere close to the money you guys are talking about.

The appeal for me is that I was basically looking for the equivalent of a 4-door muscle car. I want to go fast and have fun with my family along for the ride. I like that it's not an attention-getter (a theme that runs through my whole fleet, '05 GTO, '93 Roadmasters, '86 Volvo 745) and that it is acceptably fast and handley.

So, sure, I would rather have a 540, M5, CTS-V, G8 GXP, SRT-8, Quattroporte type car, but I have my big ol' V8 muscle machines for less than a set of tires for any of those. Plus I can pull a trailer with my full-frame cars.

That's why I ended up in the Roadmaster... I would love an Impala SS. But I picked up my TBI car for roughly 4% of what an SS in similar (ok maybe slightly better) condition goes for.

I don't think any sane person can say $2450 is a bad deal for a 2001 anything with 120K, clean record, full service history, and ice-cold A/C. Let alone to get a V8 on top of that and do all the stuff I di last year without a single failure or breakdown.

it's a bad deal for a 2001 kia sephia with 120K, clean record, full service history, and ice-cold A/C.

i don't need PI anything - my car is quick enough for what i use it for. and the butt dyno said it was quicker than the 02 i drove the same day i bought my 99.

Lolz!

Cotton wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

P71 wrote: I don't get the cop aspect. I used to be a federal officer (Coast Guard) but I sure don't want to be one now.

In a past life, I was a heavy truck mechanic and driver, but wouldn't want to be either now. I don't get the guys with the diesel pickups with the vertical exhaust stacks. I think the cop thing and the truck thing are appealing to people who have never been the real thing. I have nothing against diesel pickups, but I wouldn't buy one unless I couldn't get a gas engined pickup that would meet my needs.

Man I must not fit in anywhere. I own a one ton diesel dually for towing...it doesn't have stacks though. I have small cars, big cars, trucks, and motorcycles .....where do I belong?? It's interesting living with the typical stereotypes associated with the different types of vehicles. Seriously sometimes big cars are just fun. I bought my old 96 Impala SS because I wanted a nice road car that was quick and handled well and I would buy a P71 for the same reason. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to hit the drags or roadcourse with it from time to time, even though one of my other cars are more suited. The p71s are A LOT of car for the money.

Not everyone fits the stereotypes, but they do exist for a reason. If I was going to own a big car, I would buy another '70 BUick Electra 225 like I had in college. Size, power, AND style. Obviously, it's not for everyone, just like the cop cars aren't for everyone. BTW, I also have wide variety of automotive interests. I currently own a muscle car, a '90 Civic si, two big block chevy trucks, an Accord, a Solstice GXP (company car actually), two British sports cars, a Ford 3000 tractor, two off road go karts, two spint karts, and a Honda CB650 motorcycle. I've had Chevy's, Dodge's, Fords, VWs, Hondas, TVR's, Pontiacs, Olds, Buicks, BMWs, AMC's and probably a few others. My problem is that I like everything! Well, except maybe cop cars and Super Bees. Really, that's why I have been asking about these cars, as I want to understand the appeal. I guess I do. I wouldn't buy one, but I'm starting to understand what others see in them. Still, isn't it a little strange that on a message board for a magazine that caters to autocrossing and road racing, two of the most popular cars are Miatas and cop cars? Now there's a contrast!