Fast car slow or slow car fast?

I just read Tim's new editorial on racing cars and horsepower, which was interesting.  I've driven both fast and slow cars in my 40-year autocross experience, and my race car's horsepower has been on a mostly steady upward progression:

1981 Mazda GLC – 68 hp

1977 Volkswagen Rabbit – 75 hp (when it was running right, which it wasn’t for most of the time I owned it)

1985 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo – 146 hp

1991 Ford E_s_cort GT – 127 hp (a little backsliding there) (edit - sorry for the strange spelling, but there's some sort of weird filter thing going on here.)

2003 Nissan Sentra Spec V – 175 hp

2006 Nissan Sentra Spec V Turbo – 270 hp

2015 Ford Fiesta ST – 197 hp (another temporary backslide)

2016 Ford Focus RS – 350 hp

I'll have to say that the RS has been my favorite car by far, but not because it's overpowered - it isn't.  The AWD and taught suspension handle the power with aplomb.  It seems to be slowing down a little with age, possibly because the rear diff isn't as effective at neutralizing understeer as it once was.  It may need a rebuild at some point.  I still love the car and plan on keeping it as long as I can.  Even it it's current condition, it's still capable of setting a top 5 PAX performance, as in this recent 4th overall outing:

An AWD/turbo/16v rally special is hard to beat.

Over the last 25 years I've put a bunch of cars on track. The Lancer Evolutions I've owned are still the fastest, even when compared to M3s and Porsches. With a few mods (and a driver who knows how to use them!) there's not much that can keep up.

I would rather drive a slow car on a track 1 weekend a year than a fast car on an autocross lot 5 weekends a year.

In reply to LanEvo :

They make you look like a hero! I miss mine. 

Fast car fast is much preferable to either of those options.

I dont really care how fast it is as long as it has torque for days. 

So I'm pretty much a slow car fast guy but not for autocross.

Several years ago I coached a friend in a Miata.......it was fun but after years in the Formula 500 F-Mod I don't think I could go back.

I love driving the Datsun on a road course but not sure when I'll autocross it again.

I've always had slower cars. I could drive them right on the ragged edge and had a lot of fun.

I bought a fast car once. First track day:

Decided fast cars may not be for me.

What about driving a slow car slow?  Working up to that speed though.  

That said, it's tons of fun hustling my Fiesta up the mountain to work in the morning and gapping my buddy in his V6 Camry. 

I enjoy my Miata with 245whp immeasurably more than I ever did when it had 91whp, and that includes driving it on the street.

Autox is a unique discipline and I haven't done it for years, so can't comment there.

Generally speaking I'll take a fast car slow every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

In a track or autocros scenario, I can't say I have a strong preference.  They're different, but I'm not sure either is bad.  On the street, I'll take fast car slow any day.  I'd much rather have a surplus of power and good handling on the street, even if I can't use most of it very often.  Every once in a while, having it (and knowing how to use it) can save your bacon. 

I always preferred slow cars fast. Autox my old Forte was a beast with 166whp and 3000lbs with me in it on 225's. Track the Rio is just too much fun. You can go 11/10's with it and pull it back off the edge. 

In reply to rslifkin :

I agree. In a dd situation, I think fast car slow might actually be safer. Even if a fast car can get you into trouble quickly, it can get you out of trouble by the same token. 

I tend toward slow car fast, but there is a point at which it's just frustratingly slow.  It's equally frustrating to tiptoe around in a fast car in traffic.  Something that is playful and can keep up with traffic, whether on a commute or on track is just right for me. 

RaabTheSaab said:

In reply to rslifkin :

I agree. In a dd situation, I think fast car slow might actually be safer. Even if a fast car can get you into trouble quickly, it can get you out of trouble by the same token. 

I think people get complacent with fast cars and stop paying as much attention. Slow cars require more planning, which require more attention paid to driving. 

I'd ask what is considered fast? Even the new BRZ/GR are sub 6-second 0-60. I never got to track my '13 Mustang track pack, probably a good thing, on the stock 255 Pirellis, that thing would get out of under you in a hurry. 

In reply to z31maniac :

to that regard what is "slow"? The rio is an 8.2 second 0-60 car, but on track we get blown past by actual fast cars. It'll still do 105 on a few tracks

I like medium speed car fast lol. Like 350z or my Audi S3

Tyler H said:

I tend toward slow car fast, but there is a point at which it's just frustratingly slow. 

So you've driven my Datsun 1200 then.....

With the current motor the car is slightly slower down the straights than a 1.6 Miata. With my so called race motor it's slightly faster than a stock NB Miata down the straights.

The driving style on track is a very different mentality then even a 150hp car: 

You have to combine autocross & track mindsets.  Some corners you throw away the established line because it's quicker to travel the shortest distance and other corners you take goofy lines in order to stay in a taller gear because the time lost to shifting can't be gained back with the momentary added acceleration of the lower gear. You also end up drafting every car possible even if it's for 50ft.

While I love the car I understand why someone doesn't want to drive something this slow. It's like digging a post hole with a pair of spoons; there's a lot of furious work going on for the amount of progress you're making.

Same answer I give whenever this subject comes up here...

I've driven a LOT of small slow cars fast in my life.  The most fun I ever had on track was the McLaren 720S at Sebring.  Braking zones come up much quicker, and car placement means so much more at speed in it than it ever would in a car with 1/5th the ability.

In reply to racerfink :

Fun or exhilarating? Not to be pedantic but there is a difference. 

I mentioned it here many times but the D-Sports Racer I raced 20 years ago was a very fast car. As this car pulled 3Gs on the brakes and acceleration was on par with most 500hp cars the brakes zones were a very notable experience much like your time in the 720S. 

I never deemed the DSR fun; it was cool, exhilarating and other worldly amazing in one instant but you knew full well that if you got it wrong it was going to go wrong in a big way. It demanded respect.

My version of fun equates to carefree; a Miata or similar car can be chucked about in the most alarming manner without a whole lot of risk. This is why I say the Datsun is fun. The F500 is fun at autocross but on track you don't want to play around as it's an older car with small foot box that would be no bueno in a crash.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to racerfink :

Fun or exhilarating? Not to be pedantic but there is a difference. 

I mentioned it here many times but the D-Sports Racer I raced 20 years ago was a very fast car. As this car pulled 3Gs on the brakes and acceleration was on par with most 500hp cars the brakes zones were a very notable experience much like your time in the 720S. 

I never deemed the DSR fun; it was cool, exhilarating and other worldly amazing in one instant but you knew full well that if you got it wrong it was going to go wrong in a big way. It demanded respect.

My version of fun equates to carefree; a Miata or similar car can be chucked about in the most alarming manner without a whole lot of risk. This is why I say the Datsun is fun. The F500 is fun at autocross but on track you don't want to play around as it's an older car with small foot box that would be no bueno in a crash.

 

 

 

 

Your last paragraph describes exactly why I find rallycross so fun.  So much fun without real danger.  You can overdrive in a rallycross and you'll go slower or off course but not get hurt or harm others.  You can also explore the cars and your own full capabilities.  That is fun!

No, it was genuinely fun.  I had a smile on my face all during the drive home.  It's fun to catch a GT-3 RS in a 720S and get a point-by!

I can't afford fast cars so not much of a choice for me.

The only vehicle I have ever owned with more than 209 hp Is my motorhome.