Filling up the racing budget, what works?

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

That's a great idea, well except you aren't familiar with Elkhart Lake. One of the many smart ideas Clint Tufftee had was to give the concessions to local church groups.   
Imagine little Ol' Church ladies trying to outdo each other's pies etc. That's what's going on there.  Their Brats are world famous,   as is the corn on the cob.  Then their breakfast sandwiches are to die for.   
      At night Siebekins not only has the 2 best ( and 3rd IMHO) racing bar in the country*It has the finest dinners at any race track. ( plus some really cute college age waitresses ) 

* Since Watkins Glen preceded  Elkhart Lake by a few years I'll give them the nod.  

Obviously you have to get the buy in from the wife to be able to do it.  That's first and foremost.  From there, I'm a huge fan of the "allowance" concept.

I have a Paypal account that I deposit the exact same amount of money in after each check.  I've been doing it for literally 20 years.  It started as a weekend car fund, before I started wheel to wheel racing.  Once I started that and downsized/elimited the weekend car, it became...and still is...my racing fund.  Works like a charm.

MaxC said:

frenchyd said:

MaxC said:

In my marriage, cars went from being a huge problem early on (would cause arguments), to a blessing/hobby/vacation for our whole family (including our 3 kids, and our extended family).  It was not easy, and it took a long time, probably 8 years of marriage.  What I can tell you is that if you two don't try really hard and come to an agreement that you're both actually okay with (actually okay with, not "fine, whatever you want to do" kind of okay). 

I tried to logically explain to my wife things "How about you get to spend X on yourself, and then I get to spend the same amount on cars".  That didn't work at all. She had to "feel" okay with it, and only after that did we really start to agree. Eventually she started to make my hobby a priority, instead of me fighting for it. 

After I showed her that we spend less than 1% of our salary on toys/fun (including cars), she became a bit more okay with me spending more.  But the pivotal moment was a conversation where I told her that I don't work on cars/race cars to get away from her, and I'd rather her be doing my hobby with me.  That made her "feel" better.  I'm spending more money on cars, more time on cars, and race more than ever.  My wife ran a 70 minute stint in the race car in an endurance race with 60 other cars on track and is now investing in her own gear.

Long story short, moral of the story: if you don't agree and both feel good about it, then I think you'll always be fighting for your own interest and never quite be at peace about it. It's worth investing the effort to come to an agreement. 

 Well said.  
 I really love my wife and the feeling is mutual. But she's extremely strong headed.  Reason and logic don't seem to work. Fairness doesn't work. 
     She gets angry if it's not her way it's like  she needs to "win" or I don't love her.  
 I think I'm going to have to just do it and accept the grief.  

Hey man, I'm pretty old fashioned so take this how you will. If one of you "wins" in a marriage and one loses, then you both lose. When you said you're vows it ended with "and now you are one". Old school vows said "unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge". If you look at things as "mine" and "yours" my income, her income, etc. Then I think you're missing the best part of marriage, and that is teamwork, and being all in for each other. 

My wife used to earn double what I did, and now she doesn't earn any money. We both have an equal vote on what to do with OUR money. 

Really don't mean to sound preachy, so I apologize if it comes off that way. Truly hope it works out for you guys and we all get to go racing.

I couldn't agree more with you. Earlier she was working for the boss from Hell and I was completely supportive of her.   When she lost that job and spent months looking I never mentioned anything except reassurance that things would work out.  
    She's not a "bad wife" I love her dearly. 
 I suspect her past influences the way she is now. So I shut up, yet hug her and kiss her unprovoked. Try to show love quietly and yet physically. 
 She loves being home and has few places she likes to eat out. ( she's a fantastic cook )  She prefers her own cooking to eating out because of stomach issues. 

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

That's probably what's going to work.  

Patientzero said:

My wife is my partner, not my mom.  I don't ask her permission although I do ask and value her opinion.  Cars/racing are part of who I am.  I wouldn't give that up for anybody.

We had an agreement a long time ago that as long as the bills are paid and the kids taken care of she doesn't care what I do.  We've been married 15 years and she's helped swap multiple transmissions and bled many brakes.

My exact discussion with my wife when we were dating. Married going on 10 years and not a single issue yet.

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

 I think my only solution is to open a credit card and have the bill sent to me. 

Paperless billing is the way to go, hypothetically, if this were the case. 

 

I would inquire with her though how she would prefer to utilize funds. Communication is key in any relationship and if you go covert in your funding of the hobby then you possibly lead to the hobby destroying the foundation and trust within your relationship. At the same time, she needs to understand that she's effectively asking you to give up something else that you love that doesn't detract from your commitment and loving of her. 

Since she works for a big bank and that includes many banking perks. It was logical that I close my accounts and let her deal with money matters. 
     It's no longer a case of what can we afford. She buys whatever she wants and I never criticize.  She also spends her money without any demand for accounting.   
      We have agreed on a general plan to getting ready for retirement.  We've solved the vacation issue.  I've traveled so much in my life that travel is a hated chore.  Instead of me she'll go with her single daughter. win win win.  
  I've given up trying to finish the house.   Her idea of a project is 80% of my time is spent making sure  no dust is ever created.  18% percent of my time is spent  going up and down to my shop to create  the next piece.  ( to be double sure no dust is created) and 2% of the time is spent actually working.  Quietly.  No loud noise.  
 Then another 25% is listening to her complain the project took too long. 
  So in spite of the pleasure I got from creating my house I'm not allowed to finish it.

In reply to frenchyd :

I don't have any good or easy answers for you.  I wish I could offer something incredible.  I can say just communicate as clearly as possible and don't get adamant, inflexible or angry.  State your case and be realistic and reasonable.  There is a compromise to be found.  

frenchyd said:

 I really love my wife and the feeling is mutual.  

To be blunt, you both have some odd ways of showing it.

Marriage is a team sport. From what I'm reading, neither of you actually understands the others position, and you're both blaming each other for the resulting discord. Not only does it sound like you're reading different playbooks, I'm not even sure you're both playing entirely on the same side of the ball right now.

In reply to Driven5 :

My Wife simply wants to be in control.  I'm oK with that, she usually makes  good moves. Those I disagree with, I can live with as part of the compromise of marriage.  Plus I've learned over the years that I'm not always right. Some things grow on me.  
      I've noticed too that if I'm not overly critical she will incorporate some of my thoughts in her plans.  
  On Race car though there doesn't seem to be any compromise position. 
  I've been a car guy since I was 5. It's my go to place.  
       She is equally adamant no race car.   

Counseling seems like a good option here.  

I never ask my wife for permission to do anything and she never asks me.  We pool all money into 1 account and each spend whatever we want on whatever we want.    But, we both have each other's and our families best interest at heart.  We never do things that we collectively can't afford and would setback our mutual goals.  I don't buy cars that are outside of our budget.  I don't plan events that consume all of my vacation leaving none for family activities.   I don't spend endless hours in the shop or at the bar leaving her to raise the kids.  My goals and desires are set in the expectation of what I need to do as a husband and father.   

If your SO is keeping you from racing or wrenching or any hobby when you/your family can afford to do it and time after meeting your family commitments exists for your pursuit of these things then that is signs that changes need to be made.  It's probably best to enlist help to work through it.  You need to consider that she may be right about your situation and you are being unreasonable to persue these things.    

nocones said:

Counseling seems like a good option here.  

 I think you nailed it.  This is a relationship issue and not a money or racecar issue.  I think some of the key indicators are:

"My Wife simply wants to be in control.  I'm oK with that, she usually makes  good moves.

 It's no longer a case of what can we afford. She buys whatever she wants and I never criticize.  She also spends her money without any demand for accounting.

I've given up trying to finish the house...I'm not allowed to finish it.

She's not a "bad wife" I love her dearly. 
 I suspect her past influences the way she is now. So I shut up..."

One of you is running things and calling all the shots. The relationship isn't as good as it can be because you're only using one person's gifts.  Your gifts are under utilized and you aren't getting a vote despite being 50% of the marriage. Marriage counseling is going to uncover a lot of these underlying issues, and if they stay covered they can fester and lead to resenting each other.  Resentment is the death of relationships.  Even if you guys are doing fine, marriage counseling is worthwhile.  Maybe bring that up to her? If she doesn't want to, you can tell her you're going and you'd love for her to join.

Really good discussion.  This is a real thing that many car guys deal with and hopefully this conversation can help a lot of our fellow racers.  

frenchyd said:

I'm oK with that...

What you say you're ok with and what you describe being ok with are two very different things.

My wife and I have had separate checking accounts the entire 31 years we've been married. I hand her a check for the various bills and what's ever left is up to me to use however I see fit. Same goes for her

In reply to Tom1200 :

My 2nd marriage and I now have separate accounts.  I pay for the house and cars.  Wife does utilities and food.  We share kiddos school expenses.  This works for us.  
 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

My 2nd marriage and I now have separate accounts.  I pay for the house and cars.  Wife does utilities and food.  We share kiddos school expenses.  This works for us.  
 

 

We have a similar arrangement..............it works well.  I hand her any windfalls, she socks away the money and we use it for various things we see and like. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I've run at RA a handful of times and enjoyed egggerts, brats and siempkins, but there are plenty of tracks that don't offer the same experience and plenty of racers and fans don't leave the track if camping there for the weekend. The whole point is identifying great food in town and bringing it to the track for those who aren't leaving the track to enjoy. There was a misrecognition of your potential market when you assumed that everyone gets out to siempkins while they're in town (they should, but not everyone does). 

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

We totally agree.  Too bad the rest of the racing tracks aren't as good!  

Tom1200 said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

My 2nd marriage and I now have separate accounts.  I pay for the house and cars.  Wife does utilities and food.  We share kiddos school expenses.  This works for us.  
 

 

We have a similar arrangement..............it works well.  I hand her any windfalls, she socks away the money and we use it for various things we see and like. 

That's how it started out to be.  If we got back to that I'd be happy. 

We go the opposite way of most here, as we have a single account with everything going into it.  BUT, we do a yearly budget, and racing/car activities are part of it.  We agree to a yearly amount, and I do my damnedest to stick to it, but neither of us is too concerned about tracking whether I went to dinner with friends or something because I'd do that anyway.  Gas, car parts, hotel stays, entry fees, etc. are generally kept track of, and parts or services sold throughout the year add to the fund.   I literally just keep a notepad in the one drawer and keep a loose tally of expenditures.

It works well, because there's never a need to discuss any particular purchase or anything, and there's never the risk of it destabilizing another part of the budget (house repair, vacation, retirement, etc.) because it's already planned for.   Previously, even though my wife and I have great communication and are a great team, it would occasionally cause friction when I wanted/needed to spend a big chunk of change say, right before a vacation.  Now we know that the vacation was already accounted for as was the racing, so we won't have to contribute less to retirement or whatever.   It just removes stress.  Basic communication does keep large expenditures timely, though, "Hey, I'm going to buy this suspension from my friend for $1500, is there any surprises to the budget this month?"

That's were we started out.  I really liked it.  I'd love if we got back to that. But she gets extremely defensive. 

I realized long ago that I need to never lie because I'm too stupid and will always get caught in my own lies.  So that meant that I had to be able to be 100% square with my wife on everything or she wouldn't be my wife for very long.

All of that said... it is handy that Paypal seems to be the de facto method of payment when buying or selling car parts, and that the money can just sit in that account and be off the grid when I sell something.

frenchyd said:

In reply to Driven5 :  
  On Race car though there doesn't seem to be any compromise position. 
  I've been a car guy since I was 5. It's my go to place.  
       She is equally adamant no race car.   

This seems very difficult to reconcile...

In reply to Tom1200 :

I'm the saver.  So my wife gives me extra.  Every relationship needs a saver especially if you have kids.  

Will the real frenchyd please stand up?

frenchyd said:

STM317 said:

Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but if you could redo it knowing what you know now, would you change anything?

No not a single thing!! I made my choices with my eyes wide open. None were impulsive or foolish. My late wife gave me two daughters I’m extremely proud of and love deeply. They’ve given me grandchildren who cause me to melt!

the Vacations I took with my family were for them. Putting up with me traveling all the time. Leaving at 4:00am getting home at 11:00 pm  

I’ve really worked hard and enjoyed the rewards of that hard work.  I’m one of only a relative handful of Navy pilots  who got to fly off WW2 Essex class carriers.  The Navy paid me to learn and paid for me to get over 1000 flight hours and 125 carrier take offs  and 119 landings.  

I raced Sir Stirling Moss and beat him ( once)  as well as slept in AJFoyts bed. Paul Neumann asked to borrow my MGTD once and Dale Earnhardt bought me lunch.  

I wouldn’t believe it’s all happened to me if I wasn't right there.  

Regrets?  Heck no!  I want to enjoy the rest of my life and slide sideways into the grave with a loud crash and a pheeewwww! That was close, I almost missed my funeral. 

...

frenchyd said:

So in spite of the pleasure I got from creating my house I'm not allowed to finish it.

On Race car though there doesn't seem to be any compromise position. 
I've been a car guy since I was 5. It's my go to place.  
She is equally adamant no race car.   

That's where we started out.  I really liked it.  I'd love if we got back to that. But she gets extremely defensive.

If you really want to be sure your eyes are still wide open, I'd recommend individually re-reading every single line you wrote in this cry for help of a thread, and immediately follow each one with re-reading the first sentence of nocones' post above.

So. Many. Red. Flags.

MaxC said:

nocones said:

Counseling seems like a good option here.  

 I think you nailed it.  This is a relationship issue and not a money or racecar issue.  I think some of the key indicators are:

"My Wife simply wants to be in control.  I'm oK with that, she usually makes  good moves.

 It's no longer a case of what can we afford. She buys whatever she wants and I never criticize.  She also spends her money without any demand for accounting.

I've given up trying to finish the house...I'm not allowed to finish it.

She's not a "bad wife" I love her dearly. 
 I suspect her past influences the way she is now. So I shut up..."

One of you is running things and calling all the shots. The relationship isn't as good as it can be because you're only using one person's gifts.  Your gifts are under utilized and you aren't getting a vote despite being 50% of the marriage. Marriage counseling is going to uncover a lot of these underlying issues, and if they stay covered they can fester and lead to resenting each other.  Resentment is the death of relationships.  Even if you guys are doing fine, marriage counseling is worthwhile.  Maybe bring that up to her? If she doesn't want to, you can tell her you're going and you'd love for her to join.

Really good discussion.  This is a real thing that many car guys deal with and hopefully this conversation can help a lot of our fellow racers.  

I'm open to counseling. I know I'm less than perfect.  
 Please understand the following.  I often try to get a laugh  when someone asked me how I am.  
 My response is Average •••••
but my average is pretty spectacular.  
  Sure that could  come off wrong  but I love that sort or reverse twist humor. 
  The normal answer / non answer is Fine  It doesn't tell you anything about that person. Just something people say. 
  When I respond with Average.  People stop, They don't know how to take that. 
   " But my average is pretty spectacular"  says I'm OK. I have a sense of humor.