Find a Cheaty Engine Meeting These Requirements

What engine fits these requirements and makes the most power?  This is me brainstorming a stupid car for a future project that probably won't happen.

-Less than or equal to 4.5L displacement
-No forced induction
-Relatively available on the used market

Some sort of Toyota UZ variant?  A destroked LS?  What else is out there?  Looks like a few options in the 300hp ballpark, which isn't that impressive for 4.5L so I must be missing something.

The current 3.6L v6 (LFX) Camaro makes 335 hp to the crank from the factory

In reply to collinskl1 :

That is an interesting option, thanks!  Presumably at least sort of compact compared to a V8 too.  Can anybody beat 335hp?

The E9x M3 V8 (code S65) probably takes top honors for all your reqs but availability. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S65

In reply to cyow5 :

They appear to exist on the used market, like this one on ebay, but yeah not cheap.

It would probably take some expensive internals and a lot of head work, but a well built short stroke LS should be able to do 450-500hp and rev to like 9k rpm.

The BMW V8 is probably the best off the shelf option, just be prepared to do annual rod bearing replacements if it's a race engine.

dps214 said:

It would probably take some expensive internals and a lot of head work, but a well built short stroke LS should be able to do 450-500hp and rev to like 9k rpm.

I wonder if it'd be easier to go the other way and bore out the V6 and get nice and oversquare. No idea what the bore spacing is though or how much boring is tolerable

BMW S54 from an E46 M3 is another option.  3.2 liter I6 making 333hp. 

Atlas I6?

The Nissan/Infiniti VQ series should put you close to that mark. There's also the Honda J series v6s. 

The Nissan/Infiniti vk45de engine makes something like 340hp and 330 torques. It's an aluminum v8 that'll cost less than the BMW S65.

Jag AJ series 

Audi 4.2 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

Jag AJ series

The AJ-V8 specifically would be viable.  The 6 cylinder AJ engines are too low powered except in forced induction form, as none of the NA ones break the 250hp mark that I know of. 

For the V8s, the 4.0 liter is only 290hp and the 3.9 liter Lincoln version is even a little less.  The 4.2 and 4.4 versions are right around the 300hp mark. 

The VK is an interesting option since they're relatively common.  How awful is the transmission that comes with them?  Looks like there is an adapter to the CD009?

We're missing the obvious choices, DI porsche engines, 3.4-4.0L, 325-500hp, most of them an intake manifold, headers, and a tune adds an extra 5-10% on top. Not cheap and barely available on the used market, but if you're going to go off the deep end, go allll the way off.

Edit: there's a 3.6 on ebay for not much more than that S65. 345 hp stock, headers/intake/tune could make it approach 400hp, and it'll run comfortably like that basically forever with just the occasional oil change.

S65 is where I'd look first, yes.  You can beat it with various Porsche GT3 motors but I expect those are going to be WAY more expensive.  A B7 Audi RS4 motor is another candidate in the same ballpark as the S65.

Pretty sure you can get 500+ out of a naturally aspirated 20B if you bridge port it...

GM 4.3 LT1 V8. Cheap and can use lots of established SBC tricks. Supercharger, Turbos, tunnelram and carbs of you get creative.

The 4.3 V6 can be built too. How much did a Syclone make from the factory?

cyow5 said:

dps214 said:

It would probably take some expensive internals and a lot of head work, but a well built short stroke LS should be able to do 450-500hp and rev to like 9k rpm.

I wonder if it'd be easier to go the other way and bore out the V6 and get nice and oversquare. No idea what the bore spacing is though or how much boring is tolerable

I don't believe you can bore the stock walls. Darton does shockingly make a Modular Integrated Deck wet-sleeve kit that will let you do a 98mm bore, giving you 3.9L. Not sure how much overhead there is on the direct injectors or the direct-injection pump though. I suppose you could add additional port injectors to function as power enrichment, like the LT motor guys are doing.

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:

The 4.3 V6 can be built too. How much did a Syclone make from the factory?

280hp/350lb-ft. But that was with a turbo.

I didn't see the Ford Cyclone motor mentioned yet.  3.7L V6 made 300ish in the Mustangs, it has a 6 speed that bolts right up to it so no putzing with adapter plates and clutches.

Cross the LS off your list.  The smallest bore, shortest stroke LS was 4.8L so unless you want to custom build a small bore even shorter stroke LS (which would be an incredible waste of time and money) it won't fit your parameters.

I really want to say Honda J-series...but I'm not sure that's the right choice?

The J has a lot of potential, but unfortunately, not great aftermarket support. If Hondata could come up with a tuner for it and someone like Skunk2 would do cams, intake, etc. They could really wake that motor up. Instead your sort of left to your own devices with an AEM Standalone and cams that are reground by some shady companies out there. It's a shame really. 

___

I'd lean more towards a GM 90-degree V6 in the 4.3 size. It's basically 2/3rds of a SBC. Responds to building power in the same way as a SBC, but makes you know...~30% less due to less displacement.

there are some drag race guys near me building off of the 4.3 liter L99 engine that was used in the last of the B body caprices. While they are getting staggering amounts of power with the usual GM V8 tricks, I'm not sure how cost effective it is. The good thing is, GM V8 parts are so common that there are lots of mix and match opportunities. It's got the reverse flow cooling system and optispark and as far as I know was never used outside of the 1994-1996 Caprice.

The 3.7 cyclone v6 you see often at your work was tuned to 350/320 in the radical rxc. I'm not sure how tunable the DI is.

Edit: RacetruckRon beat me to it while I was looking up the RXC specs :)

This is actually an interesting hole in the market. There isn't much in the 4.5L range when you think about it.

Question: why not forced induction? It seems to me that's crossing a lot of cheap speed off the list.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Class rules and a "hole in the market" that I'm thinking about where a restrictor isn't required.