And, of course, this thread isn't complete unless I suggest a diesel. 
And, of course, this thread isn't complete unless I suggest a diesel.
Had one van with the 4.6 and another with the 5.4. They were both fine motors, but you could tell the 4.6 was laboring a bit where the 5.4 took it in stride. Not that the 4.6 was a problem or anything, but long grades took a little bit of patience.
I can second moving up to the 3/4 ton chassis. You get some extra heft that makes it a little harder for the trailer to push you around plus it doesn't seem to stress everything as much when you load it up. If you go to the F250, consider the 6.8l V10. Retorque the plugs to 30ish ftlbs and you don't need to worry about them popping out. Keep a spare coil in the glove box along with a quarter-inch ratchet with a 7mm socket attached and when a coil dies, you can have it replaced and be back on your way in about 10 minutes. If you're considering the Suburban instead of a pickup, then look at the Excursion. Great truck, room for 6 actual adult human beings for long trips and you can get 8 if you're just going across town. Mileage ain't great around town, but it's marginally better out on the highway. I get 9-10 around town and 12-14 on the open road and the 45 gallon tank will give you decent range.
Rodan said:In an OBS truck, I'll take a 460 over a 351W any day... more power, same mileage. Both would require an F250, which is going to be a little more money if nice, and values on the OBS trucks seem to be rising. '97-03 F150s are probably the best value, being in the bottom of the depreciation curve.
My previous truck before going powerstroke was an early 90s F150 with a 351, so they do exist. It still wasn't great pulling even a lighter trailer up the Sierra Nevada.
Within the price range and engine options you're shopping you should just get the newest, nicest, lowest mileage example you can find. I wouldn't avoid any of the options you've suggested and I wouldn't go out of my way to track one down either.
IMO, there's no reason to go 3/4 ton for this type of towing. He's talking 4500lbs, that's WAY less than the capacity of a modern half-ton. Also, he said fuel economy is a factor. Heavy duty trucks certainly have their place, but they come with compromises, too. I know that goes against common internet towing advice, but I've towed a whole lot more than 4500lbs with half-ton trucks in all kinds of weather and terrain, for thousands of miles, and I can tell you they handle it just fine.
I've also towed well over 4,500 lbs with light duty trucks and have had white knuckle experiences I'm glad I survived. Sometimes in high winds the tail wags the dog. The shorter the wheelbase and lighter the tow vehicle the worse it can get.
I've towed with an assortment of vehicles from a '70 Challenger to my current '00 F-350. The long wheelbase crew cab 8'bed dually is far more stable than any of the station wagons, pickups, suburbans, vans, etc. I've towed with. The 7.3 diesel gets as high as 18 MPG on flat highway not towing and as low as 12 MPG towing in mountains.
I had a 88 F150 300 I-6 4WD manual. Never had a problem with it but it certainly couldn't tow like the F-350 does.
My truck, the first I've ever owned, is The Gov't Mule, a former Ohio Dept of Transportation truck; 2006 F-250, 2wd, 5.4L, XL Trim. It's great at doing truck things. However, here are a couple of things I would change or will look for different on my next truck.
These XL trim Ford trucks can be very basic. Some of that basic-ness is very good, like the rubber floors but the two that bother me the most are:
Ford's trim levels for trucks start at XL and then XLT then Lariat in the older models. For XL, cruise and power windows were separate options. Mine being a cheap Gov't truck got neither. It would be a better long distance driver if it had both. So, keep your eyes out for these options when looking at pictures. On these vintage of Ford trucks the cruise control switches are in the steering wheel.
In reply to L5wolvesf :
You didn't specify a price range but given the age you're interested in, I looked into what I think is your market and liked these
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1303598673311774/
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/841294963082894/
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/417072079311678/
What part of Arizona? I've gone through and steep grades in Arizona with my 7.3 Excursion and 7k lbs behind it. I don't think I'd want to do those particular grades in anything less than a 3/4 ton unless it's one of these new 1/2 ton trucks. But, if you're just doing flat Arizona then no worries with a 1/2 ton.
With that said, if it's only being used for towing and nothing else then mpg seems unimportant. The difference between 11mpg and 15mpg isn't much if you're just towing within the state. How much is the cost difference in a 100 mile trip?
Whats your price range?
Where do all those engines make their max torque?
How far will you be towing on average?
L5wolvesf said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:L5wolvesf said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:I would not do any "performance upgrades" for a tow vehicle beyond simply keeping the rig maintained.
Whatever I get will be well maintained. If I can improve performance and/or MPG at a reasonable price that may happen too. Thank you
The discussion comes up a lot on Speedtalk. "I want to build a new engine for towing, what heads/cam/etc"
So my gut reaction for "performance upgrades" means building an engine
Really the automakers would have done a bang up job at making the engine efficient in the 100hp range. have never used WOT when towing, ever.
I do not want to build an engine for this. I will have enough to do when I get the race car. I was thinking "bolt on" items like headers or a carb or ??
I get that, was typing really fast. I meant the typical thing I heard from people asking about modifications for towing is wanting to spend $10k on an engine so they can use 1/4 throttle instead of 1/3 throttle 
Also, no 4.8/5.3 GM choices?
No 5.4 or v10 Fords?
You can't be THAT afraid of obdII vehicles. They're very simple.
Don't buy the engine, buy the brakes. Any of those engines will get the job done but brake systems improved mightily through that time span. Buy as new as possible in that range, ideally something with 4 wheel disk brakes and 4 wheel ABS. Yeah, I know the old school brakes work fine and brake just as well when you use them just right, but after a long weekend on track it's all too easy to let you attention drift.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:Don't buy the engine, buy the brakes. Any of those engines will get the job done but brake systems improved mightily through that time span. Buy as new as possible in that range, ideally something with 4 wheel disk brakes and 4 wheel ABS. Yeah, I know the old school brakes work fine and brake just as well when you use them just right, but after a long weekend on track it's all too easy to let you attention drift.
I know a junkyard friendly method to add 1" diameter and twin piston calipers to a 90s F150. Using stock Ford parts as well.
Rear discs and 4wabs should be a possibility as well, but I haven't yet
In reply to John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) :
I’ve become more familiar with the Ford trims lately beginning with when I got my current 96 Ranger a couple years ago. I don’t need fancy (cruise control, electric windows etc), do want A/C and working heater, do not want leather seats.
Also, that Ranger is possible trade fodder for the tow vehicle.
I’m not on Facebook (hate it really) and didn’t realize I could see the MarketPlace ads – I’ll look further there. I’ve been searching all of AZ and part of NM on CL. Thank you
In reply to yupididit :
Not afraid of OBDII just haven't really learned. Also, I would prefer to work on (improve, upgrade, etc) the race car, which will likely have OBDII, than the tow vehicle.
Suburbans are great, used one once (borrowed) to tow to an off road race it had a 454, Auto and 4x4. It towed beautiful, carried stuff, great as a changing room (especially in the crap weather we had), and comfortable ride. The 4x, the comfort, the glass etc add weight. The fuel bill was . . . the horror, the horror . . . we came kinda close to running out along I40. I would go with a SBC 2x Suburban (or Tahoe) but they are rare-ish and pretty high priced or trashed. Also, for some reason a Ford just feels right for this particular situation. I know that sounds namby-pamby but it is what it is.
First, the info here is much appreciated. I’ll need to digest it more completely.
What I’m trying to do is get info, so far so good, and maybe eliminate trucks/options that don’t fit my needs.
Replying to every post is gonna fry my fingers so . . .
Addressing some items;
I don’t have any issue with towing with a half-ton. For 4 years I towed a race car etc with a 64 C10, 283, 4 sp (granny low) and drum brakes. For several of those years the C10 also had a camper (not just a shell). That race car and trailer (no brakes) combo was lighter (est. 3200 lbs) than my current requirements.
I pulled it from AZ to Road Atlanta a couple times and to the Midwest a couple. I towed to Colorado, via mountains, many times and pulled the hill north of Phx many more times. I had few problems beyond being slow on hills and one problem (Wolf Creek Pass CO, cooked brakes) – that was a bad weekend all around.
From what I gather the half-tons in the age range I’m looking at have more capacity and brakes than they did in 1964. I would actually use the 64 (I’ve owned it since 1992) but it needs a complete resto with a disc brake and ¾-ton upgrade.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Gotta say, I totally disagree with you on the 300 being 70s reliable. Ups trucks had them up to recently and ran many many many times 100k miles. It has a lot of overbuiltness too it too, like a timing gear instead of a chains etc
They are about as close to a diesel engine as a gas engine can be too. Have you owned one or driven one a lot? I feel like you have to experience one to really get it.
For the OP......we have 2 extended vans, one with the 351, one with the 300. Both feel about the same amount of power. I was less than impressed with 351 pulling.
In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :
Mine went to 365k before I had to rebuild it and that was my fault. Hell, I know someone that had one with 250-275k and he boosted it for a DD. 10psi normal with 15psi on a race tune.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
I don't know exactly how much the work van we have has on it, I think it's over 300k. Its turned over once and the previous owner said over 200k afaik. I believe someone had 600k on one?
It's an 88 so 5 digit odometer
In reply to L5wolvesf :
That Yukon with 96k miles on it for $4200 i posted would probably be perfect for you and get decent gas empty. They're reliable and easy to work on. Parts can be found anywhere! It'll for sure do better than a 454 anything in mpg's and better than all your options in every way other than being old.
The Ford v10's are prettyy reliable but get bad gas mileage. Not as bad as a 4x4 454 would get though lol.
What's your budget?
Till my current 03, I'd never owned a ford without a carb.; most have been the stock carb. The 302 trucks I've had (all stock) have actually gotten a bit better MPG than the 300's did (all stock) Never kept any of them long enough to try to make em better. The 76 360 FE stock truck only got a wee bit worse, but would out pull 'em. When it started a wrist pin knock, we replaced it with a 352 a bud built for his truck, and wrecked about the same time. That was a pullin' fool... and got 13 -17 mpg! Mild cam, Al. intake, Holley, duals on stock manifolds.
Never had or worked on a 4.2 V6, so no advice, and no truck 351W/5.8's.
My 4.6 Grand-ma-quis gets fantastic mpg, (20-21 country roads, 23-26 Hwy.) and has been wonderfully dependable. My cousin has a 5.4 in his 03 or 04 X-cab 150. although its never been used as a truck. It gets 18-20 mpg. He's not trying for mileage... he has just always has driven like a little old lady! (his sister is the one that bought a 72 Trans Am back in 74!) real high miles on that truck these days. I've HEARD the complaints about the mod motors, but have been blessed not to experience them!
The 2011 F150 my wife towed nice, but only 97 and newer 150 I have driven, so no advice.
But if a OBS 150 is towing a 4500 lb trailer, and experiences a white knuckled event, either the trailer is set up wrong, or is a very tall enclosed, with high winds. An open trailer/car combo at 4500lbs, the only weak link would transmission heat.
The reason the LS has replaced the SBC as the easy button swap, is they work... and I'm a life long Ford fan! My wife had a 07 chebbie 1500 with the 4.8 and factory tow package - but 2.42 rear gears. The MPG was worse than the 5.3's, and a pig towing. But comfort was good, and the 5.3's are very common. Not a cool as the OBS Ford (to me) but you would not regret that decision, either.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Gotta say, I totally disagree with you on the 300 being 70s reliable. Ups trucks had them up to recently and ran many many many times 100k miles. It has a lot of overbuiltness too it too, like a timing gear instead of a chains etc
They are about as close to a diesel engine as a gas engine can be too. Have you owned one or driven one a lot? I feel like you have to experience one to really get it.
For the OP......we have 2 extended vans, one with the 351, one with the 300. Both feel about the same amount of power. I was less than impressed with 351 pulling.
We can agree to disagree. The 300 will run terribly for a very long time the same way an old John Deere 2-cylinder will. The two 300s I had experience with burned a ton of oil at about 150k and one needed lifters badly. But they ran. By comparison, the several 4.6L I have owned/had experience with ran like brand new at twice that mileage.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Gotta say, I totally disagree with you on the 300 being 70s reliable. Ups trucks had them up to recently and ran many many many times 100k miles. It has a lot of overbuiltness too it too, like a timing gear instead of a chains etc
They are about as close to a diesel engine as a gas engine can be too. Have you owned one or driven one a lot? I feel like you have to experience one to really get it.
For the OP......we have 2 extended vans, one with the 351, one with the 300. Both feel about the same amount of power. I was less than impressed with 351 pulling.
We can agree to disagree. The 300 will run terribly for a very long time the same way an old John Deere 2-cylinder will. The two 300s I had experience with burned a ton of oil at about 150k and one needed lifters badly. But they ran. By comparison, the several 4.6L I have owned/had experience with ran like brand new at twice that mileage.
I've never owned a 4.6 so I have no first hand experience there. I remember issues with Cam phasors and timing chains?
The work van is in year 12 of working and doesn't burn or leak any oil at all. It's amazingly smooth too, like there is no vibrational difference between the car being on or off. Couple that with a hugely overboosted power steering and my only real complaint is it drives fairly numb. I really like the fact that it has torque from idle though. It basically seems to have solid torque always, more than the 351 really which seems to take a bit of revving before torque happens.
We can agree to disagree. The 4.6l and 5.4l are good engines too, but it isn't really a contest, you are selling the 300 short imo
In your range, I’d be far more concerned about the transmission than the engine. On that alone, I’d say go with a 97-up truck if you find a decent one, or find out when the AODE replaced the AOD in the older trucks. Not saying they are way better, but I’d trust an electronically controlled transmission with unknown maintenance history way better than a cable/vacuum controlled transmission.
Regarding my experience, I used to have a 2004 F150 Heritage extended cab long bed with the 4.6. Towed great, even with the smaller V8. It wasn’t a rocket ship, but it got the job done just fine. Definitely got better mileage, loaded or unloaded, than the 5.4.
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