I also had a look around today as I was all over town. There were a lot of trucks and SUV's there but they are seriously outnumbered by cars around here. I wonder what they (all of them) are going to do in Canada where we still buy small cars.
I also had a look around today as I was all over town. There were a lot of trucks and SUV's there but they are seriously outnumbered by cars around here. I wonder what they (all of them) are going to do in Canada where we still buy small cars.
Did the NHTSA ever change the definition of truck so that it excluded vehicles like the PT Cruiser? Car companies love (loved, if the answer to the my question is yes) things like crossovers that they can market as not being trucks but that count as trucks for CAFE requirements.
My point is that if the OEs discontinue cars and build only trucks, I wouldn't be surprised to see the government (well, not the current administration) say "We see what you did there. We're raising the fuel mileage requirements for trucks to make up for your shenanigans."
Manufacturers leaving certain market segments should make them more viable for those who remain. There are plenty of great cars on the market. Hopefully things will cycle back in the future.
the free market provides!
Will said:Did the NHTSA ever change the definition of truck so that it excluded vehicles like the PT Cruiser? Car companies love (loved, if the answer to the my question is yes) things like crossovers that they can market as not being trucks but that count as trucks for CAFE requirements.
My point is that if the OEs discontinue cars and build only trucks, I wouldn't be surprised to see the government (well, not the current administration) say "We see what you did there. We're raising the fuel mileage requirements for trucks to make up for your shenanigans."
The rules changed a few years ago, where the idea of truck v car doesn't really matter anymore. So you won't see PT Cruisers made to offset truck fuel economy- they will be built on their own merits.
Suprf1y said:I also had a look around today as I was all over town. There were a lot of trucks and SUV's there but they are seriously outnumbered by cars around here. I wonder what they (all of them) are going to do in Canada where we still buy small cars.
http://driving.ca/ford/auto-news/news/313676
the civic is the only car that is high up in canadain sales but how long will it outdo the crv for. Toyota is selling more rav4 then corrollas here. Only 2 cars were in the top 10.
read most of this entire thread. only thing i can say is that i berkeleying hate the E36 M3 out of any an all crossover type vehicles!
First car was a mk1 focus, loved the crap outta it! so much so i almost pulled the trigger on an ST because of car issues here, knew what i could afford and for how long vs if i wanted to lease. ended up not buying a brand new car, but when i tack on a few more G's and the wife is able to work in the states... its a real possibility to get a new daily, fun one at that
Adrian_Thompson said:spitfirebill said:I bet Henry Ford is spinning in his grave.
No, if he's got room in his coffin I bet his fist pumping. He vision was to put the world on wheels, that's what the company is doing and prepping to be able to do that into the future.
Yep. Remember Ford pledging to have autonomous, or was it electric by 2021. The clock is ticking, and Ford knows it.
I'm going back to read the rest of this fascinating thread.
Brave New World.
Pretty certain all I like is two doors. Would buy a Juke if I had the scratch and rally prep the SE. And if I had additional scratch I'd buy an Altima coupe and ( must clarify for both - tarmac ) rally prep the SE-R. That's all I care about. It might be the only reason I bought the SVT and S-10 other than increasing rarity and price. But I also like the Murano convertible. I love 80s Camaros. If its got two doors I'm interested. Well but for that 2dr Camry. That's tough to love.
Everything that Ford offers today that is Hybrid or electric is car based, not CUV.
Does this mean that Ford will have no Hybrid/Electric car next year???
C-max, gone
Fusion Hybrid/Energi, gone
Focus Energi, gone
Keith Tanner said:Subaru no longer offers the Legacy wagon. My father is a serial owner of the things and was very unhappy when his new one had to be a sedan. He wasn't interested in the new, bigger Outback - but that was based on preconceptions, not on actually driving one.
Definitely was preconceptions. Wife has a 2013 Legacy sedan and I have a 2015 Outback. The only difference is the height of my Outback. The width and length are identical. I measured them when the wife made a comment on how much bigger mine was than hers.
Regarding the hybrids, Ford announced they will be making a hybrid Bronco and possibly others.
I think viable electric larger SUVs and trucks will be a difficult proposition.
Will said:My point is that if the OEs discontinue cars and build only trucks, I wouldn't be surprised to see the government (well, not the current administration) say "We see what you did there. We're raising the fuel mileage requirements for trucks to make up for your shenanigans."
Not wanting to flounder, but have you been paying attention to the current administration, the exact opposite is happening.
Leaving politics aside. Personally I'm amazed at how fast fuel economy has improved over the last 10-15 years. I recall around 06 Ford announced how quickly we were going to improve our fuel econ over the coming years and personally I thought it was an impossible task that we would miss. I was way way wrong. We beat our original timing. I think people forget how fast the whole industry has improved fuel econ.
Off to Google for a min.
Back again.
2018 base F150 fuel econ 20 city / 26 highway
2008 base F150 fuel econ 14 city / 20 highway
Pretty impressive if you ask me especially given the increase in performance that goes with it.
John Welsh said:Everything that Ford offers today that is Hybrid or electric is car based, not CUV.
Does this mean that Ford will have no Hybrid/Electric car next year???
C-max, gone
Fusion Hybrid/Energi, gone
Focus Energi, gone
The announcment didn't say they were stopping this year or next, they will follow the current cycle plan but not replace down the line. Ford is the second largerst producer of electrified vehicles in the US. They are not going backwards trust me.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
I now have found this end of production schedule
Here’s when Ford will end production of its cars:
-May 2018: Focus
-March 2019: Taurus
-May 2019: Fiesta
Fusion will stick around for at least a couple more years. Focus Active will be imported from China starting in mid-2019.
To recap that list:
Yeah, not as quickly as some other news reports imply.
In reply to John Welsh :
Well, at least I can get a car for my final lease....
TurboFocus said:read most of this entire thread. only thing i can say is that i berkeleying hate the E36 M3 out of any an all crossover type vehicles!
And young families love them. My son had a '14 BMW 328d X drive wagon for him, his wife, and 2 Corgis. When they had their first baby last year, that car ended up being too small. He looked around for a good replacement and ended up with a new CRV, which fits the kid, kid stuff and 2 dogs and the occasional grandparent.. He still has a 330i ZHP for fun, but the CRV is the perfect car for his family. Hating them because you can't see a use for them is stupid and short sighted.
I dislike most of the crossovers because if I need more space, I'd rather either have a bigger car or an SUV / truck that provides more utility to go along with its size, weight, fuel consumption and worse handling. Most of the crossovers can't carry a whole lot more weight than the cars they're based on, can't tow all that much, handle like crap, need more power, etc. It's just a weird in-between state for a vehicle that I'd rather avoid.
Then again, I also have a pretty significant dislike for minivans. Not enough weight capacity to justify the size and most historically have been pretty under-built in terms of drivetrains, etc.
Adrian_Thompson said:Will said:My point is that if the OEs discontinue cars and build only trucks, I wouldn't be surprised to see the government (well, not the current administration) say "We see what you did there. We're raising the fuel mileage requirements for trucks to make up for your shenanigans."
Not wanting to flounder, but have you been paying attention to the current administration, the exact opposite is happening.
Leaving politics aside. Personally I'm amazed at how fast fuel economy has improved over the last 10-15 years. I recall around 06 Ford announced how quickly we were going to improve our fuel econ over the coming years and personally I thought it was an impossible task that we would miss. I was way way wrong. We beat our original timing. I think people forget how fast the whole industry has improved fuel econ.
Off to Google for a min.
Back again.
2018 base F150 fuel econ 20 city / 26 highway
2008 base F150 fuel econ 14 city / 20 highway
Pretty impressive if you ask me especially given the increase in performance that goes with it.
We don't want facts. We want to bitch and moan!
rslifkin said:I dislike most of the crossovers because if I need more space, I'd rather either have a bigger car or an SUV / truck that provides more utility to go along with its size, weight, fuel consumption and worse handling. Most of the crossovers can't carry a whole lot more weight than the cars they're based on, can't tow all that much, handle like crap, need more power, etc. It's just a weird in-between state for a vehicle that I'd rather avoid.
Then again, I also have a pretty significant dislike for minivans. Not enough weight capacity to justify the size and most historically have been pretty under-built in terms of drivetrains, etc.
For my son's use case, above, a bigger car wouldn't have done it and he's already got a pickup truck. For carrying PEOPLE and their stuff, however, the CRV was the best choice for fuel economy (35 mpg) carrying capacity (remember, on trips to see grandparents every month it was him, his wife, their kid, kid stuff, and 2 corgis in dog crates) and price. I've driven it. Is it an autocrosser? No. But not everything has to be, it's still better feeling than a minivan, which might come next if they have another kid.
Minivans really aren't that bad anymore.
I do think its interesting that the reason wagons don't do well here is that people associate them with '60-'70s boring family life yet that hasn't happened with SUVs (yet) like it did with wagons and cafeteria food.
With pedestrian safely regs, side impact protection and a host of other requirements these days the hood needs to be fairly high as well as the belt line. Put a low roof on it and you have gun silt window openings like the current Camaro. Put a tall green house on it and you have a CUV.
At 6 foot 4 inches tall (190cm for the metrically inclined), I am thinking about looking a CX-5 or something like it for my next daily driver. It would be nice look through the middle of the windshield rather than a little below the top of windshield frame as I seem to with most "cars" on the market. I love the functionality of fours doors and a hatchback. If VAG didn't build crap and actively subvert to law, I would probably be looking looking a Golf.
GCrites80s said:Minivans really aren't that bad anymore.
I do think its interesting that the reason wagons don't do well here is that people associate them with '60-'70s boring family life yet that hasn't happened with SUVs (yet) like it did with wagons and cafeteria food.
Children of the '60s bought minivans in the '80s when they started having kids, because that wasn't what their parents drove.
Children of the '80s bought SUVs/CUVs in the '00s when they started having kids, because that wasn't what their parents drove.
We can only hope that children of the '00s will start buying wagons again in the '20s when they start having kids.
Duke said:We can only hope that children of the '00s will start buying wagons again in the '20s when they start having kids.
If they are smallish wagons like the BMWs, they still won't fit the kids and all the stuff that modern kids need (like much larger rearward facing car seats). My son's 328d wagon didn't.
In reply to Chris_V :
Yeah, we need something more like a 5 series wagon on the market. That somewhat larger car size seems to work for a lot of people based on the number of Camrys, Accords, Sonatas, etc. I see around (mostly in base model trim, which makes me think the biggest reason they don't sell well is cost).
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