In reply to 759NRNG :
I'm not sure Max can manage a sustained W2W battle between two equal cars without someone crashing. Last race it was him. He'll just keep trying to push the other driver around until they yield - or they don't.
In which case we will never see the battle everyone is waiting for. We got a glimpse of it early this year, and Max went off the track on his own that time. Which, of course, wasn't fair :)
alfadriver said:New York Nick said:That seems like a harsh penalty and I am not a particular Aston Martin fan.
It does seem harsh, but I'd bet that outcome is defined in the rulebook.
In all likelihood the fuel was legal and the extra liter of fuel that he didn't have to carry around certainly wasn't a huge performance benefit, but "car doesn't meet the technical regs" means disqualification. This isn't a new rule, so I think that's totally fair.
It's an interesting penalty. AM says there should have been 1.44L left in the car, but they could only extract 0.3L. For those who don't speak metric, that's the size of a can of soda. And the weight advantage would have been a couple of pounds.
AM calculated that 1.44L figure by extrapolating from fuel use and the known starting amount. Which means they're off by about 1%. Not bad, but boy howdy is that a small margin for error. And I'll bet the team was talking to Seb about fuel use over those last few laps.
I understand the DQ. The car failed scrutineering after the race. We've seen rally wins taken away because window glass was 0.5mm (0.0020") too thin.
Luck had nothing to do with Silverstone. Max did his thing and Lewis didn't back down. Done. So what if Lewis could be blamed- no luck was involved.
This week, max was unlucky. But he was less unlucky thanks to Lewis/ Merc making a mistake.
Keith Tanner said:AM calculated that 1.44L figure by extrapolating from fuel use and the known starting amount. Which means they're off by about 1%. Not bad, but boy howdy is that a small margin for error. And I'll bet the team was talking to Seb about fuel use over those last few laps.
Yeah, I seem to remember a Mercedes (Schumacher?) getting disqualified for stopping on the cooldown lap in order to try to keep a liter of fuel in the car once.
The only time I've seen an F1 car run out of fuel was Barrichello at Interlagos one year. He was supposed to pit (this was in the refueling days) but missed pit-in somehow. The car made it about 3 more corners before it stopped. The official cause of retirement was "fuel delivery problems" -- there was no fuel left to deliver. :)
I feel really bad for Seb, but when he shut it down on track, I would have bet on that outcome. The rules are clear, even if they suck.
All things considered.....what can we expect from the two principals at Spa qualifying...close or no cigar???? and no I've not done my googlefoo hwork on last years' stats.....just talkin' trash right now tonight 
But Ocon ran out, too. That's what I don't get.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:But Ocon ran out, too. That's what I don't get.
Where are you seeing this?
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:But Ocon ran out, too. That's what I don't get.
Where are you seeing this?
Ocon drove past pit entry after the cool down lap and parked it just past pit exit. I guess they didn't go over where to go if you're on the podium before the race with him :)
I don't know if anyone caught what Russel tried to do in the pits on the red flag restart or not but it was pretty optimistic. He talked through it with Sky as they replayed it after the race. Williams has the last pit box so he came in after Latifi, when he was released there was no where to go as everyone was cued up waiting for Lewis to restart the race on track. He went straight ahead on the right, passing everyone and just happened to time the pit lights going green rolling right by Ocon into second. Fortunately the FIA just asked him to give the positions back rather than a penalty.
He also mentioned with Mercedes having the first pit stall that Lewis would've been mobbed in the pit lane, stopping and not being able to leave with a safe release as everyone came in behind in a cue.
Anyways, that was a fun race to watch, Alonso's defense was great to watch (I also laughed when he prevented the over under placing his car perfectly on exit killing Lewis's run that lap) and the field being inverted was kind of fun. I think it would've been a decent race if Bottas/Stroll had held it together in T1 though too. We were robbed of the wet start to the race and the fun game of is it time for slicks?
Hopefully Lewis is back up to 100% after the break, it sounds like he's been struggling since getting COVID late last season and today just kicked his ass.
adam525i said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:But Ocon ran out, too. That's what I don't get.
Where are you seeing this?
Ocon drove past pit entry after the cool down lap and parked it just past pit exit. I guess they didn't go over where to go if you're on the podium before the race with him :)
Yeah, in the excitement he missed the pit lane entry. Presumably he had enough fuel in the car for a sample though.
Maybe someone mentioned it and I missed it but I actually didn't mind Nico at all calling the race. It was less of his sensational crap that we see when he's doing more of a scripted piece and actually interesting/informative to listen too.
I definitely feel like punching him in the face less than I did two weeks ago lol.
In reply to adam525i :
I actually can't stand him...until today.
He used to just spew way too much rumor and soap opera junk. He still did some today but he seemed to replace most of it with a lot more talk about the driving or tire warmup etc.
Just gat a chance to watch the race in rerun. What a race!!!
Creepers Hamilton looked like he was going to pass out on the podium.
Found this article. Looks like he was not ok on the podium.
I just want to see actual racing for the championship, not rivals getting crashed out race after race.
Related note: if you don't think Lewis has luck tattooed on his ass, you're out of your mind.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to 759NRNG :
I'm not sure Max can manage a sustained W2W battle between two equal cars without someone crashing. Last race it was him. He'll just keep trying to push the other driver around until they yield - or they don't.
In which case we will never see the battle everyone is waiting for. We got a glimpse of it early this year, and Max went off the track on his own that time. Which, of course, wasn't fair :)
This is what I was trying to explain to a friend. Max just doesn't race in a way that allows much wheel to wheel action that some want. We watched that fantastic battle of Alonso and Hamilton and at no time did either do the "max." As in throw their car into a position that creates a crash or get out the way situation.
Very well put.
Maybe Lewis does have Luck tattooed on his behind but that is his personal choice....
How did we have almost a page debating the concept of luck.. cool choice or luck?
In all the discussions of Bottas and the terrible injustice he imparted on the field and the debate on if Lewis is the greatest driver or the luckiest driver no one has mentioned Stroll.
Didn't he do the exact same thing as Bottas except when he lost it he dive bombed the corner into the grass and mangled LeClerc? Did I see that wrong?
In reply to New York Nick :
You are correct, Stroll was late on the brakes and trying to regain ground. It just doesn't work so well in the wet...
SnowMongoose said:I just want to see actual racing for the championship, not rivals getting crashed out race after race.
Related note: if you don't think Lewis has luck tattooed on his ass, you're out of your mind.
There is a Thomas Jefferson quote regarding this. I'll let you look it up yourself
I agree that Nico was far less punchable than usual in the commentary booth. That surprised me. Best part was when he predicted Lewis would win the race because "I've been his teammate". I do wonder how much of his information on things like warmup is five years out of date, but that's pretty much par for the course for any commentator.
Alonso is a hard guy to pass, but he does push the limits on how much he moves around. We saw it in the sprint race a few weeks ago, he was all over the track blocking. Still, yesterday was the first time I've seen why people rate him highly as a driver. There was some beautiful positioning and situational awareness. And LOL at Ocon saying "lots of people told me what it would be like to have Alonso as a teammate but he's actually a good guy".
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:adam525i said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:But Ocon ran out, too. That's what I don't get.
Where are you seeing this?
Ocon drove past pit entry after the cool down lap and parked it just past pit exit. I guess they didn't go over where to go if you're on the podium before the race with him :)
Yeah, in the excitement he missed the pit lane entry. Presumably he had enough fuel in the car for a sample though.
Ah, OK. I assumed he stopped out on track because he ran out.
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