In reply to alfadriver :
100% Agree that a red flag was the better action - I yelled that a few times at the TV in the moment.
I personally don't feel as though anyone acted in bad faith. You could hear the desperation in Massi's voice a few times there, poor guy. I wonder if he'll retire after this season.
And seriously ... has anyone checked on Latifi....? I'd be hiding in and letting the Hamilton fans cool off, still. The rear just walked away from him.
In reply to adam525i :
Thanks for looking it up!
In reply to accordionfolder :
https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/32858041/nicholas-latifi-apologises-influencing-max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton-title-battle
In reply to accordionfolder :
With bad intention, no, but with faulty reasons, very much so. Considering that there are other teams that are joining Mercedes in court, I think they all have a beef with the decision, since it impacted them, too. Can't focus a decision on two drivers and nobody else. That's the real problem with the decision- it was made for a showdown for two and not for the field. And that makes one question the integrity of the sport.
In reply to alfadriver :
Yeah, I understand the beef. I'm still in complete shock and awe at Hamilton's post race behavior, I hope I can have half the maturity of him if I ever encounter such a situation.
Damn, I'm hungry right now.
The integrity of the sport that started the season by granting Nikita Mazepin a Superlicense and allowed a Russian flag scheme despite the international sporting ban? Or the integrity of the sport that holds races in countries with active human rights violations?
The FIA's integrity always has been about the money.
(That said I completely agree the Masi screwed that call. The rules were all of nothing, not half, and it's not his first failure this season. Toto and Horner have both had their way with him all year.)
wae said:Also, it is pretty cool to see Alonso's GP2 engine developed that far. Sad to see Honda go. Again.
This got a hardy chuckle from me btw. Under-rated comment.
accordionfolder said:In reply to alfadriver :
Yeah, I understand the beef. I'm still in complete shock and awe at Hamilton's post race behavior, I hope I can have half the maturity of him if I even encounter such a situation.
Damn, I'm hungry right now.
I really respect Hamilton, and his actions off track all year have been a model. I eye roll at this sometimes though because his on track is not the same. Did you catch the radio calls about Checo's "dangerous" defense? I think being on Toto's team has diluted him a bit.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
lol - I have that f1tv app that lets you switch between the drivers views and they give you the full radio of all the driver you have selected. A super-cut of all the drivers whining would be gold, they all have eye rolling moments sometimes (also incredibly how much like children they sound when they do it, clearly saying "I'VE BEEN WRONGED" without just saying it - especially when they're tatling on their own team-mates).
But I give a lot of leeway to all of them for whining and trying to win for their team while piloting a road-going space ship at 200mph.
But that's just my .02.
accordionfolder said:In reply to alfadriver :
Yeah, I understand the beef. I'm still in complete shock and awe at Hamilton's post race behavior, I hope I can have half the maturity of him if I ever encounter such a situation.
A lot more than some of the "winners" here have shown, that's for sure.
LH has really grown on me the last few years. I was NOT a fan when he was at McLaren, and it seemed like he was constantly throwing the team under the bus on the radio... but he has really matured in both his actions, words, and driving.
I thought he had no shot 4-5 races ago, but man, he took it to another level to even make it as close at it was.
I hate the controversy it ended under, but it's hard to say the guy with 10 wins didn't deserve the championship (even if I'm not a fan of his driving style or attitude.)
I don't blame Latifi at all for the situation. I think Masi hosed it. I agree red flag would have been better than what they did. Sending them out like that was guaranteed to be a win for the car with brand new softs over the car with 40 lap old hards. But here is a fun pic...
And one more. I am all in on team Lewis but Toto needs to do this because overturning the result would be such a nuclear option.
While it didn't turn out the way I wanted, I don't want it overturned........ that would just be lame.
In reply to New York Nick :
Agreed. The ending was a hot mess, but the window to fix the mistakes effectively closed before the podium ceremony. Any change to race results or championship standings made now (or a week from now, a month from now...) will just make the whole mess even worse.
Don't over turn, fire Masi and get the rules clarified.
In reply to johndej :
The problem is, the rules are clear. They just aren't being followed consistently. I bet Toto and Christian know that rulebook backwards and forwards, that's why they were in Masi's ear non-stop. He needed to nip that in the bud. His job isn't to please the team principals, it's to run the race according to the rules. I really wanted LH to win but overturning the result at this point would be an even bigger black eye for F1. Fire Masi, and find somebody to enforce the rules properly.
Once again, Canada has saved the Dutch from the Germans :D
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to johndej :
The problem is, the rules are clear. They just aren't being followed consistently. I bet Toto and Christian know that rulebook backwards and forwards, that's why they were in Masi's ear non-stop. He needed to nip that in the bud. His job isn't to please the team principals, it's to run the race according to the rules. I really wanted LH to win but overturning the result at this point would be an even bigger black eye for F1. Fire Masi, and find somebody to enforce the rules properly.
Exactly. If Masi is still the race director next year, I'm going to have a hard time watching anymore. Between him and the stewards, everything was so inconsistent this year.
Like I said previously, I'm sure that's Liberty Media's influence in a bid to gain ratings to the detriment of the sport. If I wanted to watch WWE on wheels, I'd just watch NASCAR.
Perhaps they need to have the same stewarts at every race,even in the 6 week amateur series I've run in for yrs consistency is an issue mostly due to different officials every single weekend.
I hope Masi leaves based on this past season but I have a feeling he won't. If all of the team principles have an open line to him I'm sure there are a few others including Liberty Media, he gets to be in between that all and also be the scape goat when things go bad. Not sure anyone else would have it any different or change anything.
The race director, clerk, stewards and anyone else in that room should really be isolated more from everything else so they can do their job running the race safely and to the rule book without outside influence. I agree that the stewards should be a more consistent group as well, maybe 5 total and 3 are always at a race.
Hopefully Ross Brawn is working away in the background to improve things.
In reply to kevlarcorolla :
It's occured to me that Toto may go ahead with the appeal to force the FIA to do exactly that. Have "permanent" race stewards that follow the series so the rules will at least have the appearance of consistent enforcement. I've seen stories that Toto may drop the appeal, but since other teams were hurt by Masi's decision (Sainz could have lost his podium) and may join Toto's appeal i'm reserving judgement on that.
We've beaten to death the finish of the GP, but we're not really talking about the start. Max gains advantage and forces Lewis wide, but stays within track limits. Lewis absolutely, unquestionably leaves the track through the next turn to gain an advantage. I think he had probably planned to do so, expecting the divebomb from Max all along and knowing that the worst outcome would have been to surrender the position he was going to lose anyway. By the rules, he should have been penalized. Yet the stewards decide not to even investigate the incident much less impose a penalty. Almost everybody including myself agrees that this was "fair" because:
- Max has a recent history of questionable decisions when passing
- It was the first lap and people are more willing to accept messy driving than they would in Lap 30
- Max regained the lost time pretty quickly
... but however fair it is, it's not by the strict rules. Stewards used discretion to get what they felt was the best outcome. If the point is that the interpretation of the rules this season was not consistent or clear, you won't get argument from me. But the drama we all saw in F1 this season is pretty much the same drama I see at every club racing weekend. The human factor will always be an element in interpretation of rules in motorsports. And the whole "it's racing not entertainment" line of thought... give me a break. It's purely about entertainment and commerce. It's the only reason that any of us care enough about our favorite driver to come here and argue about it. ;)
BMWGeoff said:Once again, Canada has saved the Dutch from the Germans :D
I have a friend whos dad spent quite a bit of the war in Holland. I'm gonna share that with him.
In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :
Lap one rules are a little more lax, and a little more "let them race."
Lewis had no where to go though. He was ahead, and Max left him no room on track. We all knew that lunge was coming. He could've held his ground, and caused a collision, but if it took both of them out, Max would've won on the race wins tie breaker. This was the least risky move LH could've made IMO. Great real time damage limitation. He went into the corner leading, was run off, and returned in the lead. That's how I see it anyways.
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