trigun7469 said:In reply to alfadriver :
I think the shot and crituqe is warranted, but how many drivers wouldn't be in Pro racing if not for them? towing the line early on, some otherwise would have never made it to F1 even though RB and TR made it horrible. You could debate Daniel Ric should have stayed at RB, he moved from Renault to now a #2 at McLaren, to maybe searching for a ride in 23.
If you don't have a choice of teams to join, sure- RBR's development program is better than nothing.
alfadriver said:z31maniac said:alfadriver said:Of the Red Bull developed drivers, they have been successful with 2, right? Vettel and Verstappen. Which is fine- considering what they have done, it's better than all other development programs at this point. BUT. The prospect of being #2 is kind of troubling. They seem to go through #2's with pretty consistent regularity.
It would be a tough thing to balance.
Danny Ric hasn't won a championship, but I would say he's had some success in F1. But I'm probably biased because I really like him.
And he left the team. He did well at RBR until they got Max as the #2- which was very brief. Remeber, Max got promoted because Danil struggled and didn't get much support as the #2 to Ricciardo.
Max and Seb have been the only #2 drivers that have been treated well. Everyone else has been more disaster for the team than success.
Given Max's age right now, until he's signed with another team, it seems to me it will be something to consider to sign up to be his potential #2 if other teams are offering their development spots.
He didn't get as much as support as soon Max signed and that's why he struggled, IMHO.
They did the same thing to Webbah when they brought up Vettel for Toro Rosso, gave all the support to the new guy to the point of giving him Mark's parts and not punishing him for not following team orders.
In other words, RBR can only develop one driver at a time. And given the speed at which he was thrown into the sport, I'm not sure Max was so much developed as discovered. His growth as a driver is mostly due to more to increasing personal maturity and not coaching.
In reply to z31maniac :
So if you are a driver who could be in F1 in 2-4 seasons, would you take a chance that you will be teamed up with Max? And then deal with the really fast trigger from the top? Or would you try a different team that you are being offered?
I am a fan of various forms of racing, including F1, and an NFL fan. Those 2 things are now tied together with the Miami race in May at / around the Miami Dolphins stadium. I imagine the inaugural race will happen but I'm wondering how solid the contracts F1 has with venues, and their owners are.
I ask because the main owner of the Dolphins is likely to come under some scrutiny based on a lawsuit and comments he has (allegedly) made regarding tanking games. The problem he could face is the NFL's "integrity" would take a notable hit if the allegations are true. Also, if true, the owner, Mr. Ross, could be required to sell the team which would include the stadium.
So, would the possible forced sale have any effect on the future races? I could see potential buyers not wanting the financial baggage an F1 race carries.
alfadriver said:In reply to z31maniac :
So if you are a driver who could be in F1 in 2-4 seasons, would you take a chance that you will be teamed up with Max? And then deal with the really fast trigger from the top? Or would you try a different team that you are being offered?
No idea. And I never said anything about that person's choice. I just said that I think the reason Danny Ric struggled is because they put all the teams backing behind the new guy, much like they burned Webber when they promoted Vettel.
Don't go all frenchy and start bringing up the price of tea in China. 
In reply to z31maniac :
But the whole rant has a lot to do with "the price of tea in China". Why else would you choose Renault over RBR?
In reply to alfadriver :
I would say young drivers are voting with their feet. Albon knows he has no chance in hell returning to his old RBR seat as long as Perez is there, so he takes the Williams drive. Gasly wants no part of being Max's #2 either, so he stays put. Up and coming drivers see that there's little upside to being a #2 at RBR right now so why not go elsewhere.
In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :
'I deserved a chance' at Red Bull return for 2022 says Gasly According to this article Gasly wants another shot at RB. Perez is the equivalent of Reubens and Bottas, I don't think RB wants a Nico v.s. Lewis situation, although as a fan I of course want to see that. Where would Gasly go otherwise? he can't go to Ferrari, too many people inline there. Renault would make sense but is Alonso ever going to retire? and I imagine Oscar P. would have a meltdown if he lost out in that ride. If Ocon took over when Lewis Retires, maybe he could go to Renault. Mclaren seem to have their number 1 driver locked up. Unless some of the midpack teams leap forward anything else would be a downgrade from TR.
In reply to trigun7469 :
Didn't see that article, thanks. He's definitely proved he has the talent, but he's done so much better at AT than I believe he would have had he stayed at RBR. They bias towards Verstappen at RBR is just too strong, and you're right that Perez is the new Reubens in that he can handle that type of situation and still get his wins and podiums in. I think that was Gasly's pride talking, but that's just my opinion..
I think Gasly has done very well at and for AT. I'd like to see him stay.
Man, the 2022 cars are sexy looking and amazingly varied. Everyone's making their best guess at sidepod shapes, and they're very different guesses.
Williams broke cover today too. That's one good looking car.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I understand why, but it's crazy how long the cars have grown over the last 15-20 years.
Maybe I'm just feeling old since I graduated HS 22 years ago.
Wheelbase is shorter than It has been for a while, so they're getting a bit smaller. There's a lot of stuff packed into these cars now.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I wish I could believe those looks, but the only one I do is the two photos from the Williams day at Silverstone. Which is noticeably different from the release photos.
Although, your point of the general looks is still quite correct.
The open Bahrain test will be fascinating.
New season of Drive to Survive is being released March 11, should be a good one
I only started watching F1 about 5 or 6 years ago, so I don't really have the proper historical context for this. I read that the new owners of Williams have decided not to continue marking the car with the Senna S starting with this season. It doesn't really move me either way, but I guess some folks are seeing that as a harbinger of things to come for Dorilton (Dorito?) capital to start dropping many of the traditions up to and including the Williams moniker.
In reply to alfadriver :
The Aston Martin has been on track as well so it exists and there are shots of a camouflaged livery Alfa Romeo on track as well. The McLaren is a real car too, they had covers over the floor and rear diffuser at the launch but no pics of it in the wild. That's not to say things won't change of course.
The standardized gearbox now is to shorten the wheelbase in the 2025 regs.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Does the Aston have a cooling problem? There are a lot of vents on the sidepods.
In reply to trigun7469 :
Maybe they're trying to direct air up. It sure is a different design than the others. This is going to be an interesting season technically.
trigun7469 said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Does the Aston have a cooling problem? There are a lot of vents on the sidepods.
I was thinking they're releasing hot (energized) air in an effort to create a boundary layer with the sidepod and reduce drag. I know less about aerodynamics than one of Adrian Newey's turds, though.
If Mercedes has them then we know where they got them from 
I also see behind the front tires, not sure if you call them fins, but they are bigger then the others channeling air to that area. I know nothing about areo or engineering just observation that they are significantly different.
trigun7469 said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Does the Aston have a cooling problem? There are a lot of vents on the sidepods.
They are used to direct the hot air between the beam wing and the upper main wing. They have been illegal for years and just reintroduced this year.
Aston chose to go this way to manage the air versus the other teams that "shrink wrapped" the side pods to the body to direct the air with "downwash".
We will see which idea works best in a bit.
The McClaren is somewhat confusing with the "reverse" suspension and low wing and inboard loaded front wing. They are likely to have a killer amount of front downforce at the expense of mid and rear downforce.
With regard to the Aston, specifically from about 2:00 about the sidepods.
Looks like Masi has been removed
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