In reply to trigun7469 :
It's interesting that outside of the early season brake problems, the technical issues with McLaren have never really been brought up. Unlike Mercedes, there hasn't been an interview where any of the technical team were asked about the flaws and if there was a solution for 2023. Based on this season, your projection is spot on- especially since their progress has been so spotty.
In reply to trigun7469 :
Oh man. If Stroll puts Alonso in the grass... that'll be a spectacle. The problem with Aston Martin is in fact Stroll (Senior and Junior). I would argue Stroll is a good driver, but will never have the potential to be a great driver. F1 has no room for good drivers. The problem is that Stroll will never be replaced as long as daddy is funding the team. Man... What I would have paid to see Alonso to replace Stroll and Vettel and Alonso as team mates...
It is toss-up best of the rest for me. I agree Alpine has the potential to take #4 next year. But hot-heads will always prevail and it will take Occon or Gasly to let their ego misinterpret one thing to set that garage ablze with drama.
On the flip side, Lando is a helluva driver and has been consistent with a car that is certainly substandard in comparison to the late season Alpine. But his teammate is new blood.
I do think Alpine has the upper-hand. But if Maclaren can get their strategic heads out of their asses, fix their gremlins, and DeVries can get his legs under him in 3 races time... We are gonna have a really fun season to watch.
Report: Binotto to be replaced at Ferrari by Vasseur another rumor, it's probably time for Ferrari to decide to either back Charles or Carlos, perhaps Vasseur can solve it.
F1 News: Sergio Perez Furious With Max Verstappen - "Shows Who He Really Is" I think there is some exaggeration around this, and I am sure Perez will get over it. What if Perez and Carlos swapped seats. Would Perez be able to hoist up Lecerc to a championship and would Carlos be a big enough agitator to Max, to throw him off.
While watching the sprint race, I couldn't help but think that Leclerc will not be in a Ferrari in just a couple years' time. His contract is up after 2024. I think if he is not seriously in the hunt in 2023, he's gone.
In reply to trigun7469 :
Its funny. There is a follow-up article linked that says Binotto's leaving is a rumour without foundation. But in no way have they stated that they are standing behind Binotto and confirming he is back next year.
I hope he is gone. They have a winning car and winning drivers. But that team is amongst the worst strategy-wise.
jmabarone said:While watching the sprint race, I couldn't help but think that Leclerc will not be in a Ferrari in just a couple years' time. His contract is up after 2024. I think if he is not seriously in the hunt in 2023, he's gone.
Where, though? There are so few competitive seats. Either Merc or RBR has an opening or he goes to a second-tier team like McLaren or Alpine and hopes they can make the leap. As bad as Ferrari has been strategy-wise, most of the field would still trade seats with him. You think Danny Ric wouldn't kill to be in a Ferrari next year?
trigun7469 said:Report: Binotto to be replaced at Ferrari by Vasseur another rumor, it's probably time for Ferrari to decide to either back Charles or Carlos, perhaps Vasseur can solve it.
F1 News: Sergio Perez Furious With Max Verstappen - "Shows Who He Really Is" I think there is some exaggeration around this, and I am sure Perez will get over it. What if Perez and Carlos swapped seats. Would Perez be able to hoist up Lecerc to a championship and would Carlos be a big enough agitator to Max, to throw him off.
Carlos and Max were already teammates. And with Max being quickly promoted as a kid, I don't think Sainz wants that "opportunity". Carlos left the RB Jr racer program to Renault in 2016.
IMHO, Ferrari is actually looking for a genuine #1 driver to support, not that they have chosen LeClerc- he's made enough mistakes on his own to question if he can deal with being a #1. So Sainz is almost as much a "can you be #1" as it is "can you support LeClerc".
Let alone, historically, RBR has burnt a massive amount of #2 drivers over the last few years- so much so that they were forced to get Perez- who was just about to leave F1 after being let go by Stroll. Looking at their Jr team even shows how much of a serious problem they have for the future- Gasley is leaving, and Tsunoda has not shown much. And the driver who is going to likely take Gasley's spot is a Jr Mercedes driver- assuming de Vries gets the seat.
Over blown or not, the fact that Max is that willing to be vindictive on his teammate when it does not matter for him and matters for the teammate- combined with the lack of realistic replacements coming down their pipeline- Red Bull is in serious trouble in the future. Other than driving an F1 car, there's little incentive to be the #2 driver to Max, and the situation they are in right now kind of illustrates that pretty well.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:Where, though? There are so few competitive seats. Either Merc or RBR has an opening or he goes to a second-tier team like McLaren or Alpine and hopes they can make the leap. As bad as Ferrari has been strategy-wise, most of the field would still trade seats with him. You think Danny Ric wouldn't kill to be in a Ferrari next year?
Good point. That's the sticking point for me. But look at how much happier Vettel has been in the past 2 years.
I just looked at the points table. George for P2 in the WDC!!! Fastest lap and win with a Checo and Charles DNF.
In reply to jmabarone :
Unless I'm misreading something, he would only need the win + Checo/LeClerc DNF. He is 25 pts behind. A win (26pts) would get him there.
In reply to vozproto :
It's 25 points for a win.
jmabarone said:Good point. That's the sticking point for me. But look at how much happier Vettel has been in the past 2 years.
Vettel is in his mid 30s and has 4 WDCs. He has nothing left to prove, so finishing out his career in a midpack car without the stress of the top teams isn't so bad.
In reply to alfadriver :
RBR has historically burnt #2 drivers( Ric,Webber, ect..) however there is no shortage of people in the wings with Iwassa, Lawson, Hauger, and Daruvala
When Nick moves onto his next team they will still have Tsunoda as a Honda driver (if they want him). I think Max will eventually move to another team, just like Vettel and Hamilton.
In reply to trigun7469 :
If any of those are qualified drivers, where are they? Instead of getting a Mercedes Young Driver, they should get their own as Gasley leaves. The fact that they constantly burn #2's at the main team seems to have run their source out. If Perez leaves, if Tsunoda good enough to actually support max, or will he just occupy the seat?
And the way RBR lets max act, I don't see Toto Wolfe want to tolerate him, so *maybe* he could go to Ferrari- but they have not really produced for a really long time- Alonso came closer to winning a WC than Vettel did, but neither won. Not sure who would take him and give him a decent shot at winning.
In reply to alfadriver :
I think Tsunoda is on the team because of Honda. I wonder if placing Nick in the seat and being blown out of the water gives RBR/AT justification to cut ties, maybe even halfway in the season, so they can throw one of the young drivers in. Another RBR strategy could be pressuring Hamilton to retire. I am sure Nick doesn't want to go to Williams in 2024, and Aston Martin & McLaren are not options. I think Nick is really talented and a year at AT he might be ready for RBR if they wants to move him up, however I don't think he would be at the level of Max and may not have the consistenecy of Perez.
I think Max would be a perfect fit at Ferrari, it would be very Schumi esc (not saying he is of that stature/talent) he will demand the team be centered around him.
In reply to trigun7469 :
IMHO, there's a huge difference between Max and Mike- Mike knew who to surround himself with- he shaped that team very personally. Max- I'm not sure he can do that. Demanding the team is built around him is not the same as building the team around you. Given some of max's vitriol on his radio, I'm not sure one could convince Adrian Newey to deal with that.
As for Nyck- I don't see him as a person to pressure Hamilton to do anything. A rookie potential vs. the GOAT? Yea, I don't see that as a possibility. Especially with Hamilton still driving at a very high level.
Still RBR has two drivers in F1 that are from their own program for 2023. Sure, you can say Perez was that, too- but he moved there after a long (and team saving career) at Force India. That seems to be a big problem.
In reply to alfadriver :
I think the pressure is on Mercedes and how they design their future, which could result in supporting Russell more then Hamilton, which could result in his retirement. Mercedes doesn't have much in the driver academy and I sure they don't want to see Nyck go to the big team RBR.
Max might be better comapred to Alonso, where there is a lot of bark and talent, but honestly I don't think there is anybody like Schumi when it came to putting together a team. Ross Brawn and Wolfe have been on record on how the DNA and success of Mercedes has Schumi's finger prints.
In reply to trigun7469 :
WRT Mercedes- maybe. They never really took sides in the Rosberg/Hamilton years- it was just that Lewis was generally better. I don't see that shift being real for a while, if it ever happens. Until Lewis really starts declining in his contribution, there's no real reason to short him anything.
And you are right that they don't have much of a driver academy- but it also only needs to fill 2 seats, which ends up being one every few years. Now that George is there, they have one seat to fill whenever Lewis retires. Since 2013, they have had Hamilton, Rosberg, Bottas, and Russell. 4 drivers over 9 seasons for 2 seats is pretty darned good.
OTOH, Red Bull has 4 seats to fill, and the churning there has been a massive amount- even when normalized to 2 seats like Mercedes. Both AT and RBR have gone through a lot of drivers- only Gasley and Verstappen staying in as long as they have. If Perez takes this really personally, they will be forced to go through another when he doesn't help max next season.
Mercedes has a number of drivers that they have brought up. Devries, Russell, ocon, etc. I'm not sure if they have totally cut ties with ocon. Also, they could probably grab albon from Williams or lando from mclaren if they really wanted to. Both teams owe mercedes a bit of an favor.
Plus, they have vesti in the junior leagues.
I think merc will be okay for quite some time.
2 years is an eternity for them to get another a list driver.
Mick out, The Hulk in at Haas.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/nico-hulkenberg-comeback-haas-2023/10400888/
In reply to wae :
I liked the Hulk super sub comeback specials but I can't say that this feels like Haas is acting like a team moving forward. They have reverted back to 2 drivers that were on the grid a couple years ago now. Seems like Mick was / is at least in a growth phase. His first year he had no teammate and a POS car.
NY Nick said:In reply to wae :
I liked the Hulk super sub comeback specials but I can't say that this feels like Haas is acting like a team moving forward. They have reverted back to 2 drivers that were on the grid a couple years ago now. Seems like Mick was / is at least in a growth phase. His first year he had no teammate and a POS car.
+1
But if you are going to have a guy who occasionally scores points but mostly finishes out of the top 10, get one that doesn't make mistakes. You can have more in your budget for development if you aren't replacing a couple extra tubs a year. Plus, I believe Nico is seen as a good car development driver. If you put a better car in Kevin's hands, could he more consistently finish in the points? He obviously needs to give a little bit more space on the 1st laps some times.
In reply to NY Nick :
I feel like this is the right step for Haas as an organization though. It's difficult to develop a competitive car without experienced drivers to give feedback so that you design in the right direction. Look how much better the team did just adding Magnusson in terms of car design. They're competing with Alfa Tauri instead of fighting with Latifi.
Lackluster programs are much better off taking mid/late career drivers rather than developing new drivers, especially in entirely new car regulations. Who do you want giving input to your race car development? A freshly licensed driver, or a career sports car racer? They may even have the same talent and potential for results, but your feedback loop should be way faster and clearer with the experienced racer
In reply to TheTallOne17 :
I think you both have good points on experience and crashing cars. But let's not forget, KMag didn't develop this car, they pulled him off the couch after the first test session when their other rookie driver was bounced for world political issues. They skipped last years car to develop this one, and they seemed to go backwards, relative to their peers, through the season. I don't blame that on the drivers either. I agree that you need at least one good experienced driver which they have in KMag. I'm not saying Mick is the guy but with the difficulty in getting a seat in F1 I would rather see a fresh face than a re-tread. Again no beef with Hulk, I didn't like seeing him go and I thought he has done a great job as a sub.
EDIT:
If I thought someone should be replaced at Haas it would probably be Gunther, he is super entertaining but he has had a lot of years to steer that ship and it always seems ready to crash into the rocks.
Well this was unexpected. DannyRic to be RBR backup driver.
Wonder if this is an insurance plan in case there is too much animosity between Max and Checo due to Max's childish antics @ Brazil.
In reply to NY Nick :
Dunno. I actually think Guenther is one of the better principals. He has a limited budget to work with and yet has been at the head to bring things along in spite of having to replace a Soviet Oligarch investor and driver, and in spite of mini Schumi DNF'ing 6x in spectacular fashion.
Meanwhile Williams has massive investment and a storied name as a principal, and yet they are still unequivocally dead last. With Nico as KMag's teammate, I expect them to be battling for 6th or 7th next year instead of 8th/9th.
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