Formula One - 2016

Hamilton has been able to maintain focus when down on points the past two years because he could always seem to get back to a place of thinking that his car's "luck" and Rosberg's would be equal but this time around he started from last year to point the finger at MB changing the car to deal with the issues of pace at Singapore. Then this year he has pointed out that the clutch, not him caused bad starts and then the multiple powertrain failures. He is not able to feel comfortable that he even has the car around him to win. Then he starts over driving the car like at the USGP when he out braked himself twice into T1. (Rosberg's off track issue handed Hamilton the win)

Still I think if his car doesn't let him down again, he will claw back to the points lead and win his 4th world championship. The only wildcard is another team getting up to MB's pace.

Rosberg has had some bad luck but the most notable trait I see is that once Hamilton gets ahead of him he rarely is able to stay in the zone and keep up. Maybe becoming a father and having that stable family life allows him to be able to stay in that zone, we haven't seen the battle to prove that yet.

There is one thing about Sochi that I don't understand. Everyone seems to talk as if Sebastian Vettel should not have lifted in T3 when he was subsequently hit by Kvyatt. But the car ahead and slightly inside line of Vettel gets loose, I think due to a cut tire Perez?, so Vettel lifted, I mean who wants to try an outside pass on a car that is getting the wiggles mid corner.

Advan046 wrote: There is one thing about Sochi that I don't understand. Everyone seems to talk as if Sebastian Vettel should not have lifted in T3 when he was subsequently hit by Kvyatt. But the car ahead and slightly inside line of Vettel gets loose, I think due to a cut tire Perez?, so Vettel lifted, I mean who wants to try an outside pass on a car that is getting the wiggles mid corner.

I think it's not so much that Vettel shouldn't have lifted as the fact that Kyvat couldn't have expected him to lift. It changes the second contact from a "He hit him AGAIN?!?!?" into a first-few-corners racing incident.

Regarding luck -- 2014 and 2015, Hamilton and Rosberg had roughly equal amounts of bad luck during the year with car reliability, it's just that it seemed to happen in streaks where it would hit one driver multiple races in a row, then a few races later hit the other one.

Kyvat should absolutely have expected a lift from Vettle in turn three. He'd just berkeleyed him in the ass once in turn two. We know how sensitive these cars are, after a whack like that any sane drive is going to give a mild lift before the net highspeed corner in case there's other damage they haven't felt yet. Tire starting to de-laminate, damaged suspension piece, damage aero meaning not as much down force. Punting him in two was stupid and bone headed, punting him in three shows he just doesn't have the thinking power needed to be a top line drive yet.

Advan046 wrote: Rosberg has had some bad luck but the most notable trait I see is that once Hamilton gets ahead of him he rarely is able to stay in the zone and keep up.

I think you're right here. Hamilton has the ability to get on with racing while Nico is more emotional. When Nico's winning, he's on top of the world. But get him on the back foot and he folds. We'll see how he responds to pressure once MB sorts out the reliability problem.

Still, he's had a hell of a run since Austin.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Kyvat should absolutely have expected a lift from Vettle in turn three. He'd just berkeleyed him in the ass once in turn two. We know how sensitive these cars are, after a whack like that any sane drive is going to give a mild lift before the net highspeed corner in case there's other damage they haven't felt yet. Tire starting to de-laminate, damaged suspension piece, damage aero meaning not as much down force. Punting him in two was stupid and bone headed, punting him in three shows he just doesn't have the thinking power needed to be a top line drive yet.

Don't agree. Kyviat would have no idea of Vettel's car's condition. This incident is no different than the Alonso crash. Kyviat would have no idea of a dramatic reduction in speed. This is where starting at the front has its benefits. Its also where Vettel is proving to be a whiner.

Keith Tanner wrote:

Advan046 wrote: Rosberg has had some bad luck but the most notable trait I see is that once Hamilton gets ahead of him he rarely is able to stay in the zone and keep up.

I think you're right here. Hamilton has the ability to get on with racing while Nico is more emotional. When Nico's winning, he's on top of the world. But get him on the back foot and he folds. We'll see how he responds to pressure once MB sorts out the reliability problem. Still, he's had a hell of a run since Austin.

That's a different perspective than almost every F1 commentator. They have Rosberg being the cold-calculating one and Hammy the emotional one. Remember that Hammy is the one who complains about his car where Rosberg just drives. Also, Rosberg is getting a bit more confident than he ever has and remember, he soundly beat Schumi when they were paired up. He is no slouch.

markwemple wrote: Also, Rosberg is getting a bit more confident than he ever has and remember, he soundly beat Schumi when they were paired up. He is no slouch.

He soundly beat Schumacher, yes, but I think that says more about how much Schumacher had slowed down since his days at Ferrari.

Rosberg isn't slow, but he's not on the top tier of drivers (Vettel, Alonso, and Hamilton, IMHO).

FWIW, I don't place Vettel with Alonso and Hammy. If he had beaten Riccardo, maybe, but he was soundly beaten and I don't listen to anyone who excuses it. Dani out drove him plain and simple. Riccardo is a better driver than Vettel.

markwemple wrote: FWIW, I don't place Vettel with Alonso and Hammy. If he had beaten Riccardo, maybe, but he was soundly beaten and I don't listen to anyone who excuses it. Dani out drove him plain and simple. Riccardo is a better driver than Vettel.

Good drivers can have off years or cars that they don't mesh well with. A couple years ago I might have agreed with you, writing off Vettel's 4 championships to driving an Adrian Newey car, but he's done good stuff at Ferrari. He's out-performing Kimi to a similar level to what Alonso did, and if you look back to STR's sole victory at Monza a few years ago...

markwemple wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote:

Advan046 wrote: Rosberg has had some bad luck but the most notable trait I see is that once Hamilton gets ahead of him he rarely is able to stay in the zone and keep up.

I think you're right here. Hamilton has the ability to get on with racing while Nico is more emotional. When Nico's winning, he's on top of the world. But get him on the back foot and he folds. We'll see how he responds to pressure once MB sorts out the reliability problem. Still, he's had a hell of a run since Austin.

That's a different perspective than almost every F1 commentator. They have Rosberg being the cold-calculating one and Hammy the emotional one. Remember that Hammy is the one who complains about his car where Rosberg just drives. Also, Rosberg is getting a bit more confident than he ever has and remember, he soundly beat Schumi when they were paired up. He is no slouch.

First off, if those commentators are on NBC I'm okay with that.

Outside the cars, Nico might come across as cold and calculating (or German) while Hammy is more likely to show some emotion. Sure, and that's easy to see in interviews so it's easy to make that characterization and play it up in sound bites. But I don't think that's the case in the cockpit where it counts. I know Hammy's smarter - his race engineers confirm that he can multitask incredibly well at speed while Nico not as much - and he's always thinking beyond the race. You've seen Hammy asking to retire the car to save wear on the engine, a decision that looks bad in the short term but has real implications at the end of the season. He's a real strategist as well as fast.

Rosberg is confident when he's on top, he's always been good there. But I don't think he's got the mental strength when the chips are down.

Danny definitely adapted to the more complex hybrids better than Vettel did, but I think Vettel has it figured out now. He's impressing me more now than he ever has.

I also find the Emotional=Hamilton mental=Rosberg to be rather sad and even demeaning. Rosberg may not wear his emotions on his sleeve but his whining during the post race interviews about Hamilton backing him up into the Ferrari, getting pissed about a hat landing in his lap, show glimpses of his Emotional turmoil. He isn't an emotionless calculator. Just like Hamilton isn't all emotions and instinct. But the media can't sell Superman versus Superman. They need to fabricate division to generate the theater.

I actually feel sorry for Rosberg as he is probably a super cool goofy guy that we would all like at our local autocross but he just comes off like an arse in F1 media coverage.

This is the same media that rarely if ever mentions any strategy within Serena Williams' play. Only physical strength and power serves no strategy or tactics or adapting to opponents on the fly not even skill. So I am never surprised when either of Hamilton or S Williams go full stone face zero emotions except for some celebrating winning.

Anyhow back to racing. I am liking the three tire compounds per event this year. I didn't expect it to play as much into the races as it seems to so far. It seems to be a great idea. They should have had the ultra soft in Russia.

The racing action for first may be dull but the constant comeback drives by Hamilton and the renewed Raikkonen provide some good action. Also it is funny watching McLaren battle hard with force India, Toro Rossos and Renault.

I am excited for the rest of he season.

I am actually disappointed that they are "improving" F1 with new 2017 regs.

Advan046 wrote: Anyhow back to racing. I am liking the three tire compounds per event this year. I didn't expect it to play as much into the races as it seems to so far. It seems to be a great idea. They should have had the ultra soft in Russia.

Oh yes. Having the three tires has mixed things up amazingly well. I didn't know that was coming, but I really like it.

Just had the chance to watch Russia. I don't blame Rad Bull for ditching Kyviat. He's shown questionable judgement in previous races, but the first hit was avoidable and that second hit was unexplainable. Maybe he's got a brain tumor or something. That might have been okay for a Lotus driver, but not at Red Bull. They had a good second choice to slot in and they avoid the controversies that come from a driver that ping pongs his way through the field.

Vettel's rant on the radio was epic.

Keith Tanner wrote: the first hit was avoidable and that second hit was unexplainable.

The second hit was because Vettel lifted to avoid Perez (who was twitching with a cut-down rear tire) and so he suddenly slowed down a lot. Kvyat wasn't expecting that, which is why he hit him a second time.

https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/private-joker

The first hit was definitely Kvyat's fault, the second was just the sort of thing that happens in the first few corners of an F1 race. If it had happened in isolation, no one would have thought twice about it.

Regardless of your opinion on if it was legit or not, I don't blame Red Bull for ditching a driver that attracts controversy like that. Once or twice, it happens. Over and over, that's not good.

codrus wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: the first hit was avoidable and that second hit was unexplainable.

The second hit was because Vettel lifted to avoid Perez (who was twitching with a cut-down rear tire) and so he suddenly slowed down a lot. Kvyat wasn't expecting that, which is why he hit him a second time. https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/private-joker The first hit was definitely Kvyat's fault, the second was just the sort of thing that happens in the first few corners of an F1 race. If it had happened in isolation, no one would have thought twice about it.

I said up thread, the second hit was worse than the first. He had already ass ended Vettle, he should absolutely have expected vettle to lift early after that. IF I'd have been in charge forget whatever Red Bull have done to him he would have got a one race ban from the FIA

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I said up thread, the second hit was worse than the first. He had already ass ended Vettle, he should absolutely have expected vettle to lift early after that. IF I'd have been in charge forget whatever Red Bull have done to him he would have got a one race ban from the FIA

Yea, I saw your post above and I still disagree with it. :) Did you read the Will Buxton blog post? Look at the last photo, there's really nowhere for him to go when Vettel slows down, even if he had the reaction time. Vettel downshifted two gears -- he slowed down a LOT.

codrus wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I said up thread, the second hit was worse than the first. He had already ass ended Vettle, he should absolutely have expected vettle to lift early after that. IF I'd have been in charge forget whatever Red Bull have done to him he would have got a one race ban from the FIA

Yea, I saw your post above and I still disagree with it. :) Did you read the Will Buxton blog post? Look at the last photo, there's really nowhere for him to go when Vettel slows down, even if he had the reaction time. Vettel downshifted two gears -- he slowed down a LOT.

Will's Blog

That's an interesting analysis about what happened. I can see his point that although it looks bad because it was two hits in a row, the speed and expected acceleration at that point caught Kvyat out.

I've seen similar stuff happen to my own kid at the track. My son's been accused of "dirty" driving on a couple of occasions for similar instances (the F1 turn 3). However, watching my son's onboard shows that it was a racing incident. For example, in one race, my son was running second for most of the race. Behind a driver who was much faster on the straight but not as quick in the turns. For multiple laps, he'd pull a lead in the straightaway, and my kid would make up the time through the infield. By the time they were coming into the last few turns, my kid would be about 6 inches from the lead's rear bumper. He'd try to hold close to get a draft and hang in the straight. After about 3 laps of this, the front driver came out of the last turn and got squirrly. You see his back end drift out and scrub speed. My kid, who was hanging as close as he could, had nowhere to go, ended up tapping his rear bumper, making the front driver more loose and ended up passing him.

On one hand, my kid should have checked up and let the other driver regain position. Then again, he simply took advantage of someone over driving and made a mistake. Race stewards reviewed (because the front driver's dad protested. Perfectly within his right to do so.) and didn't give my kid a penalty. Said it was a racing incident with no further action. However, my kid has a bad reputation for the rest of the weekend as a "punter". Yeah, I'm his dad, so I'm absolutely biased, but I've shown the videos to others who say the same thing as the stewards.

When you're racing that close, you're assuming everyone else is too. If a mistake happens (leading driver checking up), that is not expected, bad things can happen.

I don't like/dislike Kyvat. But I think he's getting the raw end of the deal in this one and Vettel and his prestige is taking over.

-Rob

It's whinny Vettel winning. And THAT is wrong. It was purely a racing incident. Vettel is a baby used to getting his own way. He can't win unless the car is exactly what he needs. On and on.....

rob_lewis wrote: However, my kid has a bad reputation for the rest of the weekend as a "punter".

That's my point. Regardless of whether you think it was a clean hit or not, Red Bull may not want a driver with that reputation.

Being hit three times in two races by the same driver, I can understand why Vettel would be a bit cheesed.

Well, it does appear that Max was promoted as much or more than Kvyat was demoted. Man, was he quick in that Red Bull. Good timing for him that the team has sped up a lot, relative to Mercedes, too- with Max and Danny on the second row.

So much pressure for the Ferrari to catch Mercedes, and they were just passed by Red Bull.

And the Mercedes are much quicker, too. Just as the field is way faster than last year. From a 1:24.7 last year, to a 1:22:00 this year is a pretty big jump. Then again, Manor's improvement from 1:32.0 to 1:25.9 is massive. And Alonso's improvement from 1:27.8 to 1:23.9 is rather impressive too.

Interesting to hear that Haas's great start has raised expectations so much that the drivers are complaining so much that the car is having issues. Good and bad- good that the team has been able to raise expectations based on performance, bad that the drivers have kind of thrown the team under the bus. Guiterrez seems to be making sure nobody hires him unless he brings a lot of cash with him.... They are still doing well. Better than some bigger and longer standing teams (Sauber should be better, Renault is still digging out, but come on...).

alfadriver said: bad that the drivers have kind of thrown the team under the bus

Didn't hear that from Grosjean....

Guiterrez.... hmmmm, and didn't HAAS pick up a development driver???? maybe give him Guiterrez'z ride on Fridays.....

The qualifying in Spain was impressive. Hammy found his mojo and the Redbulls are on the case. It sounds like the drama of the weekend is the Redbulls Toro Rosso driver swap of Verstappen for Kvyatt...