Formula One - 2017

Remember Seb's side swipe/punt on Hammy earlier in the year? Just sayin'

Part of the rear diffuser on Hamilton’s car was damaged.

Tom_Spangler said:

markwemple said:

Wonder if that Seb contact on Hammy was intentional. He isn't a cool cucumber. If it was, it was the worst idea.

I know Hamilton suggested that on the radio, but I think that was just gamesmanship.  Vettel was clearly sawing at the wheel, and he had Max on the inside.  Plus, using your fragile front wing to try to cut a tire would be monumentally stupid, you're guaranteeing yourself damage.  

Max was on another level.  Wow.  He will be WDC as soon as Red Bull can put a consistently capable car under him.

What?

Vettel hit max, who was on the outside and in front at that point, first and then just drove into the back of Hamilton's car, after his wing was already damaged on maxs car.

It was a weird situation for sure and I don't know how max didn't end up with a flat as well.

I had it wrong, it was Bottas who was inside, not Max, who was farther ahead by that time.   But I still don't see how you could say that Vettel "just drove into" Hamilton's car.  You could clearly see that Vettel was at the limit.  It was tight racing, and they got too close.  That's all.

Why was Masa so hard on Vettel?  He clearly turned into him to run him off course.

Yeah Lewis!!!!!!!!!

He definitely drove well enough to earn the title this year. I realize after this year how good a driver Rosberg might have been to hold on, but still lose, to this rediculously fast guy over a season. 

Vettel is just like Schumacher. Unlike Hamilton last week who realized he should let Vettel have the start and focus on passing him later, Vettel decides to go full tilt and touch Hamilton. This is the same guy who screwed his teammate, multi21 anyone? Slams into the side of Hamilton in Baku. He damaged his wing on Max so touching Hamilton was a reasonable gamble to try and put Hamilton lower than fifth. But I digress, he was desperate so maybe just overdid it trying to get power down exiting the corner and expected Hamilton to pull ahead of his wing.

I think Alonso and Hamilton really enjoyed their fight for 9th. 

I said it before. McLaren may just wish they had an H on their nose next year. Renault achieved an almost 100% failure rate this race. 

Looking forward to see how Vettel and Hamilton treat the red bulls now that they are not risking losing a title in a tussle. 

Max did a great job. I respect his driving speed, on the other hand I find his racecraft distasteful. Ricciardo will have to start beating him soon or he will be replaced. 

It wouldn't be a bad idea for Weber to have a long talk with Daniel Ricciardo about being screwed out of Red bull. The team has obviously shifted towards Max just as they did towards Vettel.

Stroll is getting it done now. 

Sauber was supposed to have a big influx of cash and start turning around. Weren't they?

Random thoughts

Haas Honda 2019

Red bull Honda 2019

Torro Rosso Audi 2019

In the video of the start I saw, no pieces were flying until AFTER Vettel drove into Hamilton.

In the video from Vettel's car, it's pretty clear that the initial damage was done with the Verstappen contact including some flying parts. The Hamilton contact resulted in more flying parts.

It's also interesting to watch the steering inputs. Granted, he had a car on the inside but he was steering towards Hamilton at one point. Definitely a risky move if it was purposeful considering the math, but it worked.

I was actually surprised to see Hamilton continue the race after it was clear he was way down on speed. I expected him to retire to save the power unit so he could run at a higher damage power level for the last two races. But I don't think Hamilton himself had a clear enough picture of what was going on to make that call. He's done that sort of thing before, retired the car with a view to the whole season.

I agree that Max is awfully aggressive and a bit dangerous, but I'll take a bit of reckless abandon over the sort of willful attack we saw with Schumi and Senna - and possibly with Vettel today.

Well done Hamilton. He earned this one. He's been playing the long game just as he has on previous seasons, but people seem more willing to acknowledge it. If things start next year at the current level, it's going to be a heck of a fight in 2018.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think Hamilton wanted to drive to the podium as champ.  Not walk.

Tom_Spangler said:

markwemple said:

Wonder if that Seb contact on Hammy was intentional. He isn't a cool cucumber. If it was, it was the worst idea.

I know Hamilton suggested that on the radio, but I think that was just gamesmanship.  Vettel was clearly sawing at the wheel, and he had Max on the inside.  Plus, using your fragile front wing to try to cut a tire would be monumentally stupid, you're guaranteeing yourself damage.  

Max was on another level.  Wow.  He will be WDC as soon as Red Bull can put a consistently capable car under him.

It's also possible that since Seb's front wing was already damaged, the car didn't have as much front grip and may have played a roll in hitting Lewis.

Ian F said:

 

It's also possible that since Seb's front wing was already damaged, the car didn't have as much front grip and may have played a roll in hitting Lewis.

At 0:49 seconds of This Video of the start what direction was Vettel pointing his steering wheel?  He had more than enough space to stay where he was, BTW.  He didn't exactly drift into the rear of Hamilton's car.

alfadriver said:

Ian F said:

 

It's also possible that since Seb's front wing was already damaged, the car didn't have as much front grip and may have played a roll in hitting Lewis.

At 0:49 seconds of This Video of the start what direction was Vettel pointing his steering wheel?  He had more than enough space to stay where he was, BTW.  He didn't exactly drift into the rear of Hamilton's car.

He's clearly sawing at the wheel because the car is understeering at that moment.  At least to me.  

I must say, this is one of the reasons I'm starting to lose interest in F1.  Every race there's some "incident" where the entire fanbase spends weeks assigning blame to one party or another.  There never seems to be any accidents or racing incidents or anything, everything has to have an evil, nefarious purpose to it.  It's funny that you don't get this kind of obsessive analysis in Indycar, WEC, NASCAR, or any other form of racing.

In reply to Tom_Spangler :

Maybe.  But given his past driving, that seems more like an excuse from vettel as opposed to what happened.  Had he not driven into other cars throughout the entire season, it would be a lot easier to think that the car was just damaged, and he was reacting to the understeer.  But in the context of the rest of the season, the liklihood that it was intentional becomes very significant- very  much non-zero chance of him driving into the rear of Hamilton's car.

And while you have a point about everyone trying to assign blame- the issue isn't racing, it's the social media that one should avoid.  Like here.  

Overall a fascinating race. All of the engine failures and the passes that Vettel and Hamilton had to try. Plus Kimi working on Ocon. Massa fought everyone it seemed. 

The Haas getting into the points was a surprise. I don't remember Magnessen pissing anyone off either so good.

Just wish we could have watched Ricciardo pass on the way forward.

alfadriver said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think Hamilton wanted to drive to the podium as champ.  Not walk.

Oh, definitely. But after having significant trouble getting past Sainz, it was quite obvious that a podium wasn't going to happen unless the entire field did a Renault. Unless you mean drive into the parc ferme and then take a short walk from there instead of a longer walk from the Mercedes garage

Any predictions what Renault Powered car is going to be the fastest? Obviously Max is quick, but his aggressive style may not translate into consistency, same may go for Sainz. I am not sure if the factory team can put together a stronger chassis then Redbull perhaps they will be a dead heat with McLaren. In anycase after the young guns hit each other in the first turn Alonso can slice through the wrecked cars lolz.

trigun7469 said:

Any predictions what Renault Powered car is going to be the fastest? Obviously Max is quick, but his aggressive style may not translate into consistency, same may go for Sainz. I am not sure if the factory team can put together a stronger chassis then Redbull perhaps they will be a dead heat with McLaren. In anycase after the young guns hit each other in the first turn Alonso can slice through the wrecked cars lolz.

To me, it's a tossup between McLaren and Red Bull.  Renault isn't anywhere near the Red Bull, so it would take a lot for it to catch up.  Whereas the McLaren is talked about as one of the best chassis, but for the Honda.

I agree that the McLaren seems to have potential.  Considering the 10-12 mph defecit they had to the Merc, Alonzo sure was able to keep Lewis ( in an admittedly wounded car) behind for a long time.

What aero compromises might have to be made to fit the Renault in the car, though? Same Bat time, same Bat channel, next year...

Keith Tanner said:

 Granted, he had a car on the inside but he was steering towards Hamilton at one point.

Just quoting this part to try to make a point.

A few people here are sayign that vettel had somebody on his inside when he made contact with Hamilton.  Watch the video.  There is nobody on either side of him.  Hamilton is in front and almost pointed straight when Vettel hits him in the rear tire from darn near straight BACK, not the side like he was understeering. 

I have no idea if it was intentional or not.  I am having a hard time making any excuse for the contact.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Agreed

wvumtnbkr said:

Keith Tanner said:

 Granted, he had a car on the inside but he was steering towards Hamilton at one point.

Just quoting this part to try to make a point.

A few people here are sayign that vettel had somebody on his inside when he made contact with Hamilton.  Watch the video.  There is nobody on either side of him.  Hamilton is in front and almost pointed straight when Vettel hits him in the rear tire from darn near straight BACK, not the side like he was understeering. 

I have no idea if it was intentional or not.  I am having a hard time making any excuse for the contact.

 

 

I thought Bottas was on the inside, but you're probably right. I haven't obsessed about this as hard as many people.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Your reply made me chuckle.

I have no idea why I am all bent about this....  Seriously, no idea.

I think I'll let it go now.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

I know why- "In your FACE, Vettel!"  

Probably.  

Renault factory team has been planning on 2018 since they came back in. This year was still just transition. They might be up with Ferrari and red bull next season. Ferrari designed the best 2017 car.  When everything worked that is. MB squeaked through to the championship due to reliability and Hamilton. 2018 might just be the year someone else wins the manufacturer championship. Driver will still be Lewis. 

If Adrian Newey stays interested in putting hours in on the car then redbull will hang with the factory Renault team.

McLaren will battle with Sauber, Force India, and who knows where Haas and Williams will be. Torro Rosso is going to be all Honda based.