FORMULA ONE - 2020

I think Renault is going to lose that protest unless they have proof that RP didn't design the brake ducts themselves. Even if they are identical to the Mercedes parts, it's not enough. You're allowed to take pictures and copy but you're not allowed to get a digital file from another team and produce the part yourself. I can't remember seeing so many protests in F1 and we're only race #2. I read Hamilton's comments on how he turned his weekend around from his trouble at last weeks race and it was interesting. He said "I honestly feel like I prepared the best I could for last week, but ultimately there were some scenarios or choices that could have been better made, or better circumstances or a position I could put myself in, and there was just a domino effect of these things that often tends to happen." and I sure am curious what those decisions were

OK so i missed the start cuz  I was in choich......in twenty five  words or less what happened with LeClerc and Vettel???

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Streetwiseguy said:

Perez.  What an excellent run, even counting his losing a spot at the end.  I really thought he had Alex.

Also, I love the robotic trophy carts.  I laughed.

 

Without a doubt, a great drive.  It was too bad that he could not close enough going into the 3rd DRS zone to really take advantage of it.  Odd that the wing broke on the right side of the car when he touched Albon on the left side.

I think it got pushed sideways and broke the main mount.  He's probably lucky it didn't end up under his front tires.

759NRNG (Forum Partidario) said:

OK so i missed the start cuz  I was in choich......in twenty five  words or less what happened with LeClerc and Vettel???

Chuck got a good start, Seb got a bad one, then Chuck thought it might be fun to go four wide.  It wasn't.

23 words.

loosecannon said:

I think Renault is going to lose that protest unless they have proof that RP didn't design the brake ducts themselves. Even if they are identical to the Mercedes parts, it's not enough. You're allowed to take pictures and copy but you're not allowed to get a digital file from another team and produce the part yourself. I can't remember seeing so many protests in F1 and we're only race #2. I read Hamilton's comments on how he turned his weekend around from his trouble at last weeks race and it was interesting. He said "I honestly feel like I prepared the best I could for last week, but ultimately there were some scenarios or choices that could have been better made, or better circumstances or a position I could put myself in, and there was just a domino effect of these things that often tends to happen." and I sure am curious what those decisions were

I know there are a lot of Lewis haters, I'm not one. I have been a big fan of his since 2007 when he nearly won it as a rookie.

I enjoy that he is becoming more and more outspoken.

Saw one theory on the RP ducts- that Renault is hoping to take this to court- as there is precident in F1 that too much of a copy was deemed to be stealing of IP.  Not FIA court, but UK court.

And that seems like a tough rabbit hole to go down- as by strict IP rules, then any design that is copied would be not legal when new things are added- so the DAS on other cars could be ruled illegal, double diffuser concept, or the high rake concept- which are all taken from good ideas.

Then I also thought that IP had to be registered in some way for it to be protected.  I know I have to do that at work- including things that are considered too much of an advantage that you don't even file for a patent until it's in production to protect the crap out of it.  So on that respect, I wonder if Mercedes has to file an IP complaint for that path to fly?

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Renault is protesting Racing Point- alleging that it's not a RP design, but it was done by Mercedes.

Do you mean Tracing Point?

I like Hamilton and I'm glad he is being vocal. I have to admit that I'm tired of seeing him win all the time though, just as I'm sure people were when Schumacher and Vettel had their streaks.

I started watching Indycar again once in a while again last season. I sat through both of their races over the weekend. IMHO their races are much more entertaining. 

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Saw one theory on the RP ducts- that Renault is hoping to take this to court- as there is precident in F1 that too much of a copy was deemed to be stealing of IP.  Not FIA court, but UK court.

And that seems like a tough rabbit hole to go down- as by strict IP rules, then any design that is copied would be not legal when new things are added- so the DAS on other cars could be ruled illegal, double diffuser concept, or the high rake concept- which are all taken from good ideas.

Then I also thought that IP had to be registered in some way for it to be protected.  I know I have to do that at work- including things that are considered too much of an advantage that you don't even file for a patent until it's in production to protect the crap out of it.  So on that respect, I wonder if Mercedes has to file an IP complaint for that path to fly?

Yeah Mercedes isn't going to take RP to court since they're a customer team and probably blessed this whole thing.  I wonder if RP "stole" the CAD files or was allowed to laser-trace the car?  The rules say you're allowed to take pictures, but not measure stuff, but what if you can write a software tool to use the magic of digital photos to measure stuff from just the pictures?  Clever, but probably against the spirit of the rules, so maybe Renault just want to get that banned for the future. 

T.J. said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Renault is protesting Racing Point- alleging that it's not a RP design, but it was done by Mercedes.

Do you mean Tracing Point?

Ahahahahaa!!! 

I don't see what the fuss is. If something works, copy it! Mercedes has moved on already. Heck, copying the Mercedes from the last race would put you behind at the next race. Isn't copying what works basically the HASS strategy? Okay, it's not working so well at the moment, but still.

I was speaking to an acquaintance who was an intern at Renault last year. They basically set the car up for high rake because that's what works for others but they didn't completely understand why so the team spent the season trying to understand what they'd built. 

CAinCA said:

I started watching Indycar again once in a while again last season. I sat through both of their races over the weekend. IMHO their races are much more entertaining. 

I think there were some good runs in F1, especially Norris's last two laps.  However, I know I was on the edge of my seat for Sunday's IndyCar race.  Part of it was exciting racing but most of it was because I know Pato personally and was really cheering for him.

-Rob

T.J. said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Renault is protesting Racing Point- alleging that it's not a RP design, but it was done by Mercedes.

Do you mean Tracing Point?

LOL - I find it so hilarious that their gamble actually paid off.  That sounded a lot like something my 10 year old would have suggested.  And it worked.

T.J. said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Renault is protesting Racing Point- alleging that it's not a RP design, but it was done by Mercedes.

Do you mean Tracing Point?

Everyone does it- the double diffuser was copied, DAS will be copeied, the high rake was copied.  

RP was very shrewed in doing the copy- making the last years of this chassis pretty competitive- and even better, they learn about the chassis dynamics of a flat car- which will be what the 2022 car will be.

Other than asthetics- ideas are copied all the time in industries.  I don't see it as a big deal.

In reply to loosecannon :

Yes the copying of idea in F1 is why most cars look like the Newey high rake RedBulls from the RedBull dominant years. MB and I think it was Sauber tried different ways of designing the rake and resulting airflow management. Sauber eventually have into the trend. Air isn't a designed element. Only so many ways it will move around the rule specified tire size, car width, etc. So if you are going to stop copying Newey and start copying MB then of course it will be a shocking similar design to the MB when it is the only other car NOT following Newey.

Hamilton owned his choice to keep his foot in it in qualifying. Even if he only saw the green light and didn't see the yellow one he took the fault. Then in the race he chose to defend hard into Turn 4. And didn't get the trackout of the turn right. So two penalties in short time. All of this is normal bad weekend stuff that Grojean experiences every race.  I like that he still took a knee in Styria with other drivers the same as he did in Austria. Yup he can crush you in qualifying, crush you in the race, and speak for human rights issues. 

In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :

My insurance company sent me an online program that allowed me to upload 8 photos (4 sides and 4 corners) of my home. The program produced 30 pages of drawings and dimensions of house, doors, windows, roof and computed the amount of all materials to reroof the house.

Streetwiseguy said:

759NRNG (Forum Partidario) said:

OK so i missed the start cuz  I was in choich......in twenty five  words or less what happened with LeClerc and Vettel???

Chuck got a good start, Seb got a bad one, then Chuck thought it might be fun to go four wide.  It wasn't.

23 words.

First thank you , where did Chuck think it might be the 'TIME'  to go four wide (corner)? I"m most impressed with Lando N.....just sayin.....and why did the 'moose' come in for skins  two laps from the 'END'???

First lap, hard right with three cars already in the corner, Lando finished well, and trying for fastest lap, but he came out in too much traffic.

Streetwiseguy said:

First lap, hard right with three cars already in the corner, Lando finished well, and trying for fastest lap, but he came out in too much traffic.

And...............Bob's your uncle???? (for those that know......)

outasite said:

In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :

My insurance company sent me an online program that allowed me to upload 8 photos (4 sides and 4 corners) of my home. The program produced 30 pages of drawings and dimensions of house, doors, windows, roof and computed the amount of all materials to reroof the house.

Exactly. The F1 team basically scanned the other cars. The other teams are mad that RP thought of it first!

rob_lewis said:

CAinCA said:

I started watching Indycar again once in a while again last season. I sat through both of their races over the weekend. IMHO their races are much more entertaining. 

I think there were some good runs in F1, especially Norris's last two laps.  However, I know I was on the edge of my seat for Sunday's IndyCar race.  Part of it was exciting racing but most of it was because I know Pato personally and was really cheering for him.

-Rob

The Sunday Indy race was better than the Saturday or the F1 race. Both Indy races were rife with terrible pit stops... Sunday would have been a Rosenquist easy win if not for his botched stop.

Weather looks to be sunny and hot next weekend in Hungary. 

Three GPs in a row is fun!

Curious if reliability will be an issue for Renault again. I hope for Ricciardo and Ocon but maybe the team isn't there yet.

Norris is having a great start. 3rd in the WDC and a solid 3rd. Sainz's race was just obliterated by that pitstop. 

Albon (sigh) I had hopes and still do but he is just not keeping up. RedBull being as irrational as they are, will probably swap drivers after Spa if Albon can't find speed. kvyaat for some reason has lots of love at RB. Also Gasly is impressing again.

Bottas must win in Hungary or I think his chances to win will be spent until Sochi. Hamilton just doesn't do too well in Sochi. 

Fun season. 

In reply to Advan046 :

Some theoiries....

Renault under estimated the Sunday temps.  Many times we see one team over heat, and kind of a random basis.  Where I mean on tracks that are more exteme- they are nowhere near the same problem.  For instance- Mercedes overheated in Austria, but when conditions were more extreme in Mexico City (warmer, and less dense), not a problem at all.  I think they gamble a little on safety factor when it comes to the actual race.  So I expect Renault to be ok.

The Red Bull is a real handful to drive- to the point that Max has his issues too- spinning in qualifying, and going off enough to damage his wing on Sunday,  And the RB second driver is the one being fualted for bad driving when the car just isn't fast easily.  Albon has shown some serious speed, but the fact that it's variable suggest that it does not take much to take it off that more stable setting. And because Max is quick enough in the car, nothing is going to change.  I don't see Kvyat or Gasley doing any better.

McLaren is really back, and there's a lot more pressure on the rest of the team to perform to the car.  Thankfully, both drivers are doing really well, and there's a lot of positive vibes on the team that I'm betting that they will actually finish 3rd in the championship.

I still don't understand why Bottas struggles passing cars.  He lost a lot of time to Max while passing the same cars.  I actually have the same criticism of Stroll- he had the faster car, but could never set up the areas where he could make the pass on Daniel.  And then just had to force it very badly for him and Ricciardo, very nicely for Norris.

It's amusing to me that Stroll's seat is actually under debate when his dad owns the team.  But when pay driver Perez is head and shoulders better than him, well....  Checo had no problem passing Ricciardo- just could not do the same to Albon.  And I was REALLY hoping for him.

Ferrari and their teams are going to struggle for years.  it's going to take that long to catch up to Renault and Honda WRT power.  And given that it's likely that they were cheating to get that power, they all deserve this. It's funny that the cost cap may see Ferrari use the extra money to invest in Indycar.  Will they brand the engine Ferrari and one of their other brands?

Some random theories and thoughts.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

That's unfair to Perez, he's definitely good enough regardless of his Carlos Slim sugardaddy status.  Fast is fast regardless of who's paying the bills!

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

That's unfair to Perez, he's definitely good enough regardless of his Carlos Slim sugardaddy status.  Fast is fast regardless of who's paying the bills!

I thought Alfadriver was being sarcastic.. the "Pay Driver" is definitely faster on skill than the driver whose Dad bought a whole team!