That was nuts. I don't understand why Mercedes didn't put Lewis and go for fastest lap. And there were a bunch of really close finishes down the field - if the race was one lap longer we would have seen a real change in the order all the way down.
That was nuts. I don't understand why Mercedes didn't put Lewis and go for fastest lap. And there were a bunch of really close finishes down the field - if the race was one lap longer we would have seen a real change in the order all the way down.
Coulthard just said that next week's tire choice is softer than today's. That ought to guarantee a two stopper.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
They've mentioned that before the race- the white tires next week are this week's mediums. If that does not mean a two stopper, I don't know what will.
I wonder if that will also pick up the pace, since tire managment will be a fast race to the next stop....
Keith Tanner said:That was nuts. I don't understand why Mercedes didn't put Lewis and go for fastest lap. And there were a bunch of really close finishes down the field - if the race was one lap longer we would have seen a real change in the order all the way down.
I think since he had just one lap to go, it was safe to not. And if they did stop, Verstappen may not have.
Thinking about it, he would have pitted on the start of the last lap so fastest lap wasn't possible. I'll have to watch again - they wouldn't have known Max was pitting for sure until it was too late for Lewis on that lap, then it was just the last one.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I forgot that Max stopped with two to go, so Lewis had a free safety stop.
One thing just dawned on me- the hard tires did end up lasting longer than they were predicted to- everyone stopped early for the SC. Didn't expect them to fall off the cliff that badly, though.
When I saw Lewis get those hard tires so early, I predicted he'd run them until the last couple of laps, when he'd throw on some fresh ones and go for fastest lap. If only I'd been right!
Not the first time we've had tire drama at Silverstone. Remember the flat festival a few years back?
I would have pulled Max in once he had a pit stop on Charles. He had no chance of winning as he was going, but on fresh tires, he could have pushed Valteri awfully hard, and as it ended, he probably would have been close enough to get Lewis.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
When they came for tires at the safety car, I thought making it to the end was a big ask.
Keith Tanner said:Thinking about it, he would have pitted on the start of the last lap so fastest lap wasn't possible. I'll have to watch again - they wouldn't have known Max was pitting for sure until it was too late for Lewis on that lap, then it was just the last one.
They also had to consider that they knew Bottas would be in the pits on the same lap with a flat tire and potentially other damage from the scraping. That could easily have turned into a very long stop for Bottas and a delay for Hamilton not being able to get into the pit box.
Thinking about it a little more- I wonder if this will change Mercedes' plan next week even more- to make sure there's a full pit gap to the Red Bull.... I think they had the speed to do that if they wanted to- just that they were managing tires.
Sure made a pretty boring race really exciting at the end.
Apparently Verstappen's tires were in pretty bad shape as well and Red Bull is saying that without the stop they might have failed too:
Will be very interesting to see what happens next week when they have to run even softer tires
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Keith Tanner said:Thinking about it, he would have pitted on the start of the last lap so fastest lap wasn't possible. I'll have to watch again - they wouldn't have known Max was pitting for sure until it was too late for Lewis on that lap, then it was just the last one.
They also had to consider that they knew Bottas would be in the pits on the same lap with a flat tire and potentially other damage from the scraping. That could easily have turned into a very long stop for Bottas and a delay for Hamilton not being able to get into the pit box.
Bottas came in on at the beginning of lap 51. Lewis was already past the pits when Bottas got there, so they would have had lots of time to wave him off if it had taken more than a minute to deal with Bottas's car. Based on his post-race interview, I don't think he had all the warning signs that Bottas did about impending failure. He said the tires felt good right up to the point where one didn't :) That was probably more of a factor, they figured he could slow down quite a bit if necessary. And he did :)
Both Mercedes ran those hard tires further than Pirelli said they should. I don't know how old Perez's tires were. I'm guessing that next week there's a little less pushing of the envelope. I also wonder if Pirelli doesn't campaign hard to run the same tire selection as was used today, because they certainly don't want the publicity of tires that only last two laps and keep exploding.
I agree it is a little bit optimal for Stroll to buy a team to help his son. But then again why is it bad if Stroll is fast and he is. Hamilton's dad paid his son's way until sponsors and McLaren started to foot the bill. Stroll just has more help money so they don't have to worry about driver sponsors.
Great race start to finish.
Albon got chopped by Mag but it is what it is. Albon recovered well into the points.
Great work by Renault! They are looking solid but not fast enough. They are getting their strategy figured out.
Conversely Racing Point seem to be off. They should have started on softs to try and jump Verstappen at the start.
Sainz? Not sure why he seems so off. I don't want to think it is just because he has a Ferrari seat. Maybe he can get back in the fight.
Bottas should have had the confidence to pit at lap 40/41 and run down Verstappen. That is where he just doesn't have the fire to win the WDC.
Keith Tanner said:Bottas came in on at the beginning of lap 51. Lewis was already past the pits when Bottas got there, so they would have had lots of time to wave him off if it had taken more than a minute to deal with Bottas's car.
Both Mercedes ran those hard tires further than Pirelli said they should. I don't know how old Perez's tires were.
It was much closer than that. Checking the broadcast, Bottas' tire blew when he was 8 seconds behind Hamilton, and he lost another 35 seconds or so doing a slow lap to pit in. Lost some more during the pit entry, then it was an 8 second stop. All told, Hamilton arrives at pit in less than 20 seconds after the successful completion of Bottas' stop. That's doable but tight, and even the best pit crews have made significant mistakes in those sorts of situations in the past.
As for tire age, Perez' were the same age. Everyone pitted for hard tires during the second safety car after Kvyat's crash except for Albon (already pitted due to his collision with Magnussen) and Grosjean (stayed out to gamble on track position). Technically the Mercedes were actually 1 lap newer because they (and Verstappen, IIRC) had already passed pit-in when that safety car was called, so they had to go around again.
I see 2 mention of perez above. Maybe it's my slight hangover, but who are we actually talking about?
wvumtnbkr said:I see 2 mention of perez above. Maybe it's my slight hangover, but who are we actually talking about?
Hulkenberg aka Perez
Advan046 said:I agree it is a little bit optimal for Stroll to buy a team to help his son... Hamilton's dad paid his son's way until sponsors and McLaren started to foot the bill. Stroll just has more help money so they don't have to worry about driver sponsors.
I can't tell whether this is sarcasm or not. Everything about racing consumes money, so the more cash you have the easier it is to be successful--private instruction, the best equipment, hired help for race prep, etc. Anthony Hamilton was a regular joe working multiple jobs and pouring every cent into his son's racing. He was Louis' entire team--mechanic, pit crew, coach, manager, etc. until Louis was successful enough to join a top team. Many promising kids in racing are in a similar situation and their racing careers hit a wall when their parents run out of money. Lawrence Stroll is a billionaire, so from his earliest days Lance never wanted for anything and was able to get the next-level-up rides he wanted not based merely on talent, but on the cash he brought to the those teams. Saying "Stroll just has more help money" is like saying that Oprah's lifestyle is comparable to mine, just with more "help money" so she doesn't worry about her bills.
759NRNG (Forum Partidario) said:wvumtnbkr said:I see 2 mention of perez above. Maybe it's my slight hangover, but who are we actually talking about?
Hulkenberg aka Perez
He Didn't race (Perez AND hulkenburg). They didn't have any tire issues.
I think it was sainz that had the other flat on the last lap.
Kimi had a tire go down, but not sure if that was from the front wing or it caused the front wing.
wvumtnbkr said:I see 2 mention of perez above. Maybe it's my slight hangover, but who are we actually talking about?
Replace Perez with Sainz, who had a tire go down at the end of the race in his McLaren.
Advan046 said:I agree it is a little bit optimal for Stroll to buy a team to help his son. But then again why is it bad if Stroll is fast and he is. Hamilton's dad paid his son's way until sponsors and McLaren started to foot the bill. Stroll just has more help money so they don't have to worry about driver sponsors.
Great race start to finish.
Albon got chopped by Mag but it is what it is. Albon recovered well into the points.
Great work by Renault! They are looking solid but not fast enough. They are getting their strategy figured out.
Conversely Racing Point seem to be off. They should have started on softs to try and jump Verstappen at the start.
Sainz? Not sure why he seems so off. I don't want to think it is just because he has a Ferrari seat. Maybe he can get back in the fight.
Bottas should have had the confidence to pit at lap 40/41 and run down Verstappen. That is where he just doesn't have the fire to win the WDC.
I've got a lot of disagreement here:
"Why is it bad if Stroll is fast and he is" - never outperformed a teammate over a season, looking better this year but still meh
"Great race start to finish" - I literally fell asleep in the middle of the race, but each unto their own I guess. Ending was fun though!
"Sainz?" - he and Lando were next to each other when his tire blew, no?
"Bottas should have had the confidence to pit at lap 40/41 and run down Verstappen" - he was in second those laps. His tire failed on lap 50? If he had pitted before Verstappen pitted to go for the fastest lap, Verstappen would have stayed out.
I do agree that Renault did a good job and Racing Point beefed it (Hulk DNS!).
My apologies for the Sainz/Perez confusion, I get those guys mixed up all the time.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Keith Tanner said:Bottas came in on at the beginning of lap 51. Lewis was already past the pits when Bottas got there, so they would have had lots of time to wave him off if it had taken more than a minute to deal with Bottas's car.
Both Mercedes ran those hard tires further than Pirelli said they should. I don't know how old Perez's tires were.
It was much closer than that. Checking the broadcast, Bottas' tire blew when he was 8 seconds behind Hamilton, and he lost another 35 seconds or so doing a slow lap to pit in. Lost some more during the pit entry, then it was an 8 second stop. All told, Hamilton arrives at pit in less than 20 seconds after the successful completion of Bottas' stop. That's doable but tight, and even the best pit crews have made significant mistakes in those sorts of situations in the past.
As for tire age, Perez' were the same age. Everyone pitted for hard tires during the second safety car after Kvyat's crash except for Albon (already pitted due to his collision with Magnussen) and Grosjean (stayed out to gamble on track position). Technically the Mercedes were actually 1 lap newer because they (and Verstappen, IIRC) had already passed pit-in when that safety car was called, so they had to go around again.
Thanks for doing the math, I didn't realize it was so close. Mercedes is really good at double-stacking the cars and 20 seconds is enough time to wave off a pit stop - but they must have figured that the risk of a blowout was lower than the risk of something going sideways during a stop. Very sideways, it would have meant a 30s stop. Of course, this is a lot easier to figure out when you have more than 20s to do it! But it could be argued that not stopping was the conservative option.
I think both RB and Mercedes made the right late strategy calls given the information at hand even if the Lewis pit stop was possible. And it actually worked out for all of them with the exception of Bottas. Lewis may have lost a tire, but he still managed to get the car home and take the win. Max got his fastest lap.
If Mercedes had pitted Bottas on lap 40 for new tires... He would have ended up about 10s behind Max if memory serves, but with 12 laps of fresh mediums on a Mercedes vs oooooold hards on a Red Bull he should have been able to run Max down fairly quickly. Then Max would have come in for tires as well and Lewis would have been free to do the same. The result would (theoretically) be a Lewis/Bottas/Max finishing order with a fastest lap belonging to a Mercedes.
In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :
Yes some autocorrect made my post read wierd. But I think the points were still clear.
Stroll- his dad is his sponsor. So is it your view that if Anthony Hamilton was a billionaire and brought 150M pounds to McLaren for 2005 season in F1. Skipping his amazing GP2 season that it was unworthy? Stroll skipped a few steps and had help for sure just saying it isn't fair to say he automatically sucks. He may be no better than Vandoorne/Palmer/Rossi but he got a podium in a Williams. And does ok against an obviously better Perez.
Sainz- I guess I didn't understand how the McLaren was slower than the Ferrari? He got in the back of Leclerc on the last two races and Grojean in England and just struggled to get by. He seemed more aggressive at the end of last year.
Bottas started complaining about an unknown vibration around lap 40. If he pitted it would have secured enough laps to run down Verstappen. He failed to do so in Hungary but Silverstone is a much easier track to pass on. Bottas onwon newhnew mediums needed a second per lap on Max which was doable.
Watch the video in Formula 1 website it shows why Hamilton didn't pit. He didn't notice a problem until he was on the last lap then it failed. So he only did two thirds the last lap on the failed tire....only..
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