In reply to Swank Force One:
Which ones don't have problems making more than 400hp, and still has one pump?
This is why I tell people to be very careful when getting a tune. It's easy to break an engine in a very expensive way if tuned wrong.
In reply to Swank Force One:
Which ones don't have problems making more than 400hp, and still has one pump?
This is why I tell people to be very careful when getting a tune. It's easy to break an engine in a very expensive way if tuned wrong.
alfadriver wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Which ones don't have problems making more than 400hp, and still has one pump? This is why I tell people to be very careful when getting a tune. It's easy to break an engine in a very expensive way if tuned wrong.
400hp isn't really relevant as a hard number. We're discussing engines that see big gains from a tune.
The VAG products and Mazda DISI motor (which... is basically a DI Duratec, right?) see big gains with tunes. 400hp on those motors with a tune only? No, the turbo doesn't support it.
Swank Force One wrote:alfadriver wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Which ones don't have problems making more than 400hp, and still has one pump? This is why I tell people to be very careful when getting a tune. It's easy to break an engine in a very expensive way if tuned wrong.400hp isn't really relevant as a hard number. We're discussing engines that see big gains from a tune. The VAG products and Mazda DISI motor (which... is basically a DI Duratec, right?) see big gains with tunes. 400hp on those motors with a tune only? No, the turbo doesn't support it.
No, the Mazda DI is theirs alone. Not realted to any of our engines, other than the bore/stroke of the duratec family.
Still, one needs to know what they are compromising before taking a tune- I saw a video of a developer doing a run, which blew up the engine.
As for the big gain with the tune- this engine is about 345hp (reportedly), so 400 isn't a big gain (I don't think). Especially when someone posts that 500 is done on other engines.
Knurled wrote: ... No. The added power from the factory is because they incorporated all of the tricks already. If there was more power to be had in software, it would already *be* there. My bet is that the horsepower is already limited by the turbo and/or the fuel pump.
Agree but only in principle. Companies have to keep engines reliable for warranty reasons. They well may be able to get another 50 hp out of it but they know it'll come at the expense of decreased reliability. They have to balance performance and profits against potentially getting a black eye in reliability if they go too far.
kb58 wrote:Knurled wrote: ... No. The added power from the factory is because they incorporated all of the tricks already. If there was more power to be had in software, it would already *be* there. My bet is that the horsepower is already limited by the turbo and/or the fuel pump.Agree but only in principle. Companies have to keep engines reliable for warranty reasons. They well may be able to get another 50 hp out of it but they know it'll come at the expense of decreased reliability. They have to balance performance and profits against potentially getting a black eye in reliability if they go too far.
And sometimes they are both conservative and unreliable! I'm looking at you, Subaru.
I'd let Mountune decide how much power the RS can safely make.
drummerfromdefleopard wrote: I'd let Mountune decide how much power the RS can safely make.
I wouldn't. But that's just me not trusting most aftermarket tuners.
Some have the hardware to do it right. Not sure of Mountune is one of them.
you all are trusting them enough to include their bits and tunes under the factory warranty when installed by them or by O'Neil (though not warrantying their parts, which they warranty for 3yr/36mon). That's enough backing and support for me to give them a nod. I honestly won't likely modify the engine of the RS for 2 years or so after delivery though.
In reply to drummerfromdefleopard:
The stuff I see from their site that does not change the warranty come from Ford Racing. Which tells me that a Ford engineer is doing the work- and that they have access to the right hardware to make sure it's at least reasonably good.
The tune is where I have the biggest concerns. Their handheld thing vs. a laptop with the proper calibration system to modify, as well as the cal guides and strategy book to know what does what.
But its your car. I'd at least want to specifically know what they calibrated around to make more power- what part of the factory calibration did they compromise.
Swank Force One wrote:alfadriver wrote:For every DI engine that has a problem making power, there's two that don't. I wouldn't expect this to be any different. Limited to 400hp by 100% stock fuel system, i wouldn't be surprised. That's still a big gain for a tune, in my book.Dietcoke wrote: basic bolt ons, tune, and some e85 can get a 135/335 from about 260rwhp to 500rwhp.For a DI engine like this, that wouldn't work. For that matter, changing to E85 would reduce how much power it can make. The real limiter is the high pressure pump, which is volume limited. Swank- many DI engines have big problems making big power. I know the 3.5l Duratec is pretty hard limited to barely over 400hp. Have to add a second pump to make more- which is a decent amount of engineering.
Currently, we have 3.5EB guys making 450+AWHP on stock fuel systems. 
alfadriver wrote:Swank Force One wrote:alfadriver wrote: As for the big gain with the tune- this engine is about 345hp (reportedly), so 400 isn't a big gain (I don't think). Especially when someone posts that 500 is done on other engines.If 55hp increase isnt a big gain you need your head examined.
this is why I drove low horsepower cars.
yamaha wrote:Swank Force One wrote:Currently, we have 3.5EB guys making 450+AWHP on stock fuel systems.alfadriver wrote:For every DI engine that has a problem making power, there's two that don't. I wouldn't expect this to be any different. Limited to 400hp by 100% stock fuel system, i wouldn't be surprised. That's still a big gain for a tune, in my book.Dietcoke wrote: basic bolt ons, tune, and some e85 can get a 135/335 from about 260rwhp to 500rwhp.For a DI engine like this, that wouldn't work. For that matter, changing to E85 would reduce how much power it can make. The real limiter is the high pressure pump, which is volume limited. Swank- many DI engines have big problems making big power. I know the 3.5l Duratec is pretty hard limited to barely over 400hp. Have to add a second pump to make more- which is a decent amount of engineering.
you have a calibrated dyno that shows that? The best I saw was 420 on an engine dyno, with no exahust and running LBT- which it could barely do.
What AWD dyno are you working with?
In reply to chiodos:
Since people seem to think that +500hp should be capable, no 55hp isn't that big of a deal.
I love how we are debating (a discussion of opinions) a lot of theories (ideas yet proven) about a vehicle that hasn't been made yet, based on info from the Internet (a source that can never be trusted) this is fun?
chiodos wrote: If 55hp increase isnt a big gain you need your head examined.
On top of 345hp? It's not that big a change, no.
In reply to alfadriver:
Upgraded turbos and some other stuff, but negative on the dyno calibration. Guy from Chicago owns it, Livernois book is probably thrown at it as well. No idea where he dyno'd it.
I'm already fully aware of your attitude of skepticism towards the aftermarket in this regard as well. 
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