Frustrated with Fabrication

I've read articles, i have watched youtube videos, studied forum posts and have just about had it.

I think I am no good at fabrication; making any "stuff" from scratch.  Be it wood or steel, which is even more frustrating.  I have ideas and have a mind for making things but that does not translate well into physical form.

I have basic tools for metal working.  A nice Lincoln Mig welder, several angle grinders with cutoffs and flap discs and grinding wheels, some clamps, speed square and various other squares and a good tape measure.  I have had all these for nearly a decade so I am familiar with their uses, its not like I just started using tools for the first time.

Whenever I work its on the concrete ground in the garage but that not level in any spot so its of very little use.  I dont have a bench or weld table that i can use currently and maybe that where some of the problems lie? I feel with that i would havea table that i could base square off of. Add in clamping to that and it seems a step in the right direction.

Do i need corner jigs like the Fireball ones or corner clamps?

My metal is not fresh stuff, its recycled and picked and scavenged but its nice.  I dont pick warped or bent stuff so I dont think thats the issue. 

My cutting is with an angle grinder/cut off wheel. This might factor into the problem a bit i think.  Its a bit trickey to make nice square cuts.  I had a chop saw a while ago and even when I squared up the blade it still cut off and often the blade would wander leaving the bottom of the cut off. I dont have room for a big band saw but though of purchasing a portaband to make nicer cuts. (of course i would want to make a stand for it but seeing as how I am writing this post, i doubt that will go that smoothly) 

I have watched and spent a lot of time on looking at welding order and how welding pulls material.  Always room to improve but i am aware of it and how to try to counter it.

No matter what I get into building, by the end..heck, even part of the way through things end up off.  Out of square, lopsided, leaning, rocking etc. Its very frustrating. I know there are ways to improve my skill-set and I have tried but lately I just want to have a fire sale on the tools and throw in the towel.

Does anyone have any tips or advice? At least talk me off the edge here, its so frustrating.

If you have the money, I'd recommend sauntering over to HF for a portaband - the Bauer branded one is quite decent, and their cheap welding table. If that's not big enough for you make one. I can't imagine trying to fabricate on the ground at this point in my life, although as a youth I used to cut and miter gutters and downspouts that way. Buying two sawhorses and a sheet of plywood was a huge improvement!  But I've never been a big fan of cutting with angle grinders. 

Step #1 is some form of workbench. It doesn't have to be anything fancy...I've been using an old table for like 5 years now. It's not as nice as a real workbench but it's a million times better than working on the floor. A basic bench vise is really good too. It's much easier to get nice, accurate cuts when you're not holding with one hand and cutting with the other. The thing I struggle with most is drilling holes accuracy. I have access to a drill press at work but if I didn't I'd probably have bought a small drill press by now.

On the wood front, I just finished a project that required cutting a bunch of 2x4s into foot long segments, where consistent lengths and square edges were semi-required. I bought a cheap miter saw and it's one of the better tool purchases I've ever made, well worth the $100 even if I never use it ever again or it blows up the next time I try to use it. Also part of the trick with wood is knowing that dimensional accuracy isn't it's strong point. If you need millimeter accuracy and perfectly square corners, wood isn't the right material to build with.

Being comfortable helps gain confidence with anything. Working on the ground is fine for quick tasks, but its never my first choice.

I recommend some sort of welding/layout table. Can be a welding bench, or even a rolling tool cart with a steel top. That lets you ground against the table, use magnets to hold stuff, even tack weld stuff to the table.

For what it's worth, my Tig welder sits under a Harbor Freight 5 drawer cart, and I have a piece of 16ga steel sitting on the top as my welding table. Works a treat.

Build or buy some sort of table or bench. Check  CL or market place. Should be lots of stuff cheap. If  space is an issue, build something that folds up against the wall when you're not using it. 

I'm shopping for a portaband and table myself. Get one with the sliding fence/guide thing. It will cut much better.

With your work off the floor, practice. Practice..... We aren't pro's who do this all day and comparing ourselves to stuff we see on TV isn't fair.

With respect to cutting. Angle grinder is a good place to start. If you don't have any already, the knotted wire wheels on a grinder are really efficient at cleaning up dirty metal.  From there, I prefer to scribe lines using a square and scribe if I want precision, or use a sharpie if it's just quick and dirty. 

You don't need corner clamps.

You need a metal bench with a flat top, an assortment of vice grips and clamps, some 2" x 2" angle steel and a framing square.

Need to hold something at 90' while you tack it? go to the open corner of the bench. Clamp down a piece of angle along one side of the bench with the inside of the V facing away from the work. Lay your framing square against the side of the angle and clamp down the next piece of angle the same way, along the other edge of the bench and use the framing square to make sure the two pieces are square to each other.

Now, anything you clamp together in that corner you made, using the flanges of the angle that are sticking up as clamp points will be exactly 90 degrees to each other. They will also be flat because the bench top is flat and they will be very, very close to 90 degrees to the bench top in a vertical axis (plumb) because the bench top is flat and the flanges are 90 degrees to the bench top.

It took me longer to type that than it does to set up that super simple corner jig.

Plus one on a bandsaw and get it in your vice or build/buy a stand for it. Suddenly you'll be able to make accurate cuts, which saves a ton of grinding time.

Practice practice practice. Remember the guys who do it on youtube often do it for a living - 8 hours a day. How many weeks (or months?) does it take you to get 8 hours of experience? I'm just saying don't beat yourself up. 

It would help to know what are you trying to build? Just general fabrication? You specifically mention trying to miter corners etc in steel and wood are you trying to make furniture? Depending on what your trying to make the tools to get there change. A cheap HF portaband and a Swag table for it will make cutting easier. An assortment of HF welding magnets will help hold metal things together. HF portable welding table will help get you off the ground and if you have a little better budget Northern Tool has a decent little fixture table with an assortment of clamps and accessories for about 150 if you get one of there coupons.  

While the stuff fireball tool makes does make life easier if you have a need for it they are expensive tools for something your admittedly frustrated with. Since used metalworking tools never bring your money back best to hold off a bit and maybe use some cheaper options.

How welding moves metal around is something that gets better as you do it. And better clamping normally helps in this area also.  You could probably address most of the issues your having with a few hundred dollars of tools. 

Papabear said:

It would help to know what are you trying to build? Just general fabrication? You specifically mention trying to miter corners etc in steel and wood are you trying to make furniture? Depending on what your trying to make the tools to get there change. A cheap HF portaband and a Swag table for it will make cutting easier. An assortment of HF welding magnets will help hold metal things together. HF portable welding table will help get you off the ground and if you have a little better budget Northern Tool has a decent little fixture table with an assortment of clamps and accessories for about 150 if you get one of there coupons.  

 

While the stuff fireball tool makes does make life easier if you have a need for it they are expensive tools for something your admittedly frustrated with. Since used metalworking tools never bring your money back best to hold off a bit and maybe use some cheaper options.

 

How welding moves metal around is something that gets better as you do it. And better clamping normally helps in this area also.  You could probably address most of the issues your having with a few hundred dollars of tools. 

Wow, this thing looks pretty sweet!  Had no idea something like this was so affordable.  No canoe

Welding Table

I worked on a house once that had such a crooked foundation that the sill plates were hanging in the air on one end. Making things square is something lots of pros have trouble with too. I do a lot of fabrication and I no longer strive for perfection. I'm not putting my stuff on display so functional and competent looking is my goal. 

As others have said, definitely get a bench. That will help a ton.

The main thing it sounds like you're missing, though, is practice. I've been building 2-3 project cars per year for nearly a decade, and still don't get fabrication right the first time every time, but I'm way better than I used to be. Accept that your first few tries won't be perfect, and over time you'll get better.

If you do want to be perfect, spend extra time, like 2-3x as much time, when you're building. The slower you go the better, as long as you keep moving and don't get stuck on any one task. 

I agree with everything said before me. I have been a fabricator most of my adult life. Sheet metal is still tricky, and an entirely different animal than structural or ornamental.

To go a bit more micro: You want a table with a 3/4"+ thick top. Use a silver artist's pencil to draw what you are making. As you mock that part up, tack those pieces to the table fairly aggressively. Scraps can be used for more complicated shapes-for instance, some 2" square tube can be used to change elevations. C-clamps can be cut in half, welded to the table, and used to clamp stuff down. when you are done, and it is cooled, cut the part off the table and clean and flatten it.

   What I'm getting at is material is not precious. It is okay to make some un-useable if it gets you a good part. Jigs are good. They can be wood, but metal has advantages. Re-watch some Binky episodes with an eye towards their jigging. There is more of it than there is finished car. Watch NoCones videos for excellent wood jigging. Accurate welding in free space is nigh impossible for anyone. Metal moves when you weld it unless it is kept from doing so.

Chop saws by their nature are inaccurate. They are a blunt tool for rough work.

Get a vice and use it. You can buy a port a band stand.

Build stuff you have to use, tear it apart and rebuild until you are happy with it. Practical projects are how you get good at this stuff.

This guy is an excellent resourse. Maybe TMI.

https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

A lot of good advice here. I'll add one more thing. You have to really put time into prepping the joint. Regardless of what you are using to get it ready. You can only weld metal, not dirt, not rust, not air. The time you spend getting the joint right will pay off when you go to weld it, especially if you are developing your welding skills. 
I used to struggle with this, I would get it close enough and try to weld it and it never went well. I watched a video (maybe from the welding tips listed above) and he said that you can only weld metal deal and it just sunk in finally!

Come spend some time in the shop with me 

Tom Suddard said:

still don't get fabrication right the first time every time, but I'm way better than I used to be. Accept that your first few tries won't be perfect, and over time you'll get better. 

This.  My woodworking and home improvement skills weren't the best at age 24 but now at 58 years of age it is much better.  Doing it over and over is the key.  

Shoot - you should see how bad my first project (drill bit gauge) was when I was 14 years old in "Metals I" in high school - my first screwdriver I made sucked too. 

It's like sex.

Nobody gets it right the first time.

What you are missing is success. That feeling of accomplishment that drives you to try something else and grow into the whole thing.

The whole point of "fabrication" is to get something done with what you have at hand. So I dont see that you need more tools.

The important part of fabricating does not require tools, it is the thinking about it and doodling up how it is going to work. Then making the paper patterns that will tell you how to make the actual part.

Pete

ShawnG said:

It's like sex.

Nobody gets it right the first time.

Not true

In reply to Brotus7 :

I found an online review of that table that says it's a great table, and includes the following tidbits:

If you follow the directions, assembling it is a one-hour job. If you do it by guessing, it will be more like 15 minutes.

I can tell it's going to fit into my shop well. I'm already using it to store objects instead of putting them away.

Get a workbench and a vise. Go to HF and get some different style clamps to clamp your material to the workbench when welding, cutting, etc.

Get the HF portaband and order the Swag Offroad stand for it that fits in a vise rather than the free standing one, this will save you space on the workbench that you're going to get.

I do more with wood than steel, but like a lot of people have said, practice is the key. What has worked great for me is you know how some pieces and projects require precision and others dont? When doing things that dont need to be perfect I try make them as perfect as possible. Measure and cut to a precise length, cut the ends square, etc, even when I dont need to. That way when I do need to I have that practice  in.

NOHOME said:

What you are missing is success. That feeling of accomplishment that drives you to try something else and grow into the whole thing.

Pete

This.  I'm kind of the opposite of the original poster. I grew up in a metal fabrication family, but my mechanical skills were weak. I bought a kit car, and building it was the perfect entry to the GRM world. The car was my calling card. Something that I could take pleasure in, and which bought me a measure of respect.

So I think that it would benefit you to make things that you can take pride and pleasure in. Look up cyclecarts. That's something that doesn't take extraordinary skills, but should bring a heap of pleasure and experience. Perhaps you should build that welding table that you so clearly need. As Pete says, start with middling successes and build from there. 

Tom Suddard said:

The main thing it sounds like you're missing, though, is practice. I've been building 2-3 project cars per year for nearly a decade, and still don't get fabrication right the first time every time, but I'm way better than I used to be. Accept that your first few tries won't be perfect, and over time you'll get better.

+1 on this.  Fabrication is not my strong point because I don't do it enough.  On the occasion that I do, I wind up with small parts of projects that wind up awesome, but the rest of it is mediocre.  Practice allows you to figure out what you did that made the awesome bit and learn how to do that consistently across the whole thing.

All skills take a certain amount of time to develop and one only has so much time available.  At some point it becomes a question of priorities -- I'd *like* to be really good at fabricating stuff, but I have come to accept that I have other things in my life that are more important and I'm just not going to get to it.

Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

ShawnG said:

It's like sex.

Nobody gets it right the first time.

Not true

She lied to you.