The FR-S has been the apple of my eye for the last few years; it really does tick all of the right boxes. I recall the FR-S and BR-Z having slightly different suspension tuning at some point; has this changed?
The FR-S has been the apple of my eye for the last few years; it really does tick all of the right boxes. I recall the FR-S and BR-Z having slightly different suspension tuning at some point; has this changed?
FRS/BRZ, Miata, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Porsche Boxster S, Mustang, Corvette
Why not up your budget a smidge and get something like this (in not red).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-GT-Track-Package-w-Recaro-Seats-2013-Ford-Mustang-GT-5-0-6-Speed-Track-Package-Recaro-/291235289856?forcerrptr=true&hash=item43cef9db00&item=291235289856&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
How much "fun" is necessary?
If you're looking for something that's practical and somewhat "fun" I'd recommend the new Mazda6 or the Mazda3. I bought my '15 Mazda6 Touring with a Manual trans this spring and I love it so far. As an overall package it has great styling, a comfortable interior with "adult sized" rear leg room, a large trunk, great handling, and great gas mileage for an 87 octane non-diesel, non hybrid car. I hit my best fill up yet last weekend when I cracked off 500 miles and 36.5 mpg on one all highway driving trip. Otherwise with a 50/50 mix of city and highway I'm averaging about 400 miles per tank and 30.5 mpg.
It's not "fast" by any means and it would be a let down compared to an Audi, a BMW, an STI, an EVO, a Mini Cooper S, a GTI, a mustang, etc but for a car in the dreaded "mid size" category it has enough power to be "sporty" (185 hp)and passing, etc. is no problem. Power band really starts at 3,000 RPMs and it redlines at 6,200 RPMs so if you "get on it" it will respond and get moving but it's not a torque monster or a high reving motor. The knock against these right now is rumor has it Mazda won't be making a Speed3 until at least 2017 or 2018 and there is no more powerful motor option then the 2.5l 4 cyl with 185 hp.
I've yet to autocross it but I may take it out next year at some point. I'd like to add a RSB and I'm hoping that by then there will be an aftermarket shock for it from Koni, Bilstein, etc. so I can do a mild drop with H&R springs and aftermarket shocks.
The other option that wasn't available when I bought mine was a Mazda3s. On the 14s you could only order an "s" which is the Mazda3 with the larger 2.5l motor from the Mazda6 with an auto trans. I've read that they are now selling Mazda3 Grand TouringS with manual trans as an option. Meaning you could get an absolutely loaded Mazda3 with active cruise control, auto sensing wipers, emergency braking assist, bose stereo, etc for $25K AND the 185 hp 2.5l AND be about 300 lbs lighter then the 6.
So to sum it up I'll say this; it's about the most fun you can have in a "practical" mid size car. If you want more power then that there are definitely better options but it's hard to beat it for what it is.
z31maniac wrote:stanger_missle wrote: What about a CPO Mustang GT? Say a 2011+ so you get the 5.0? A quick search on Autotrader found quite a few GTs with manuals. 412hp, RWD, manual, makes good sounds, decent fuel economy and a huge aftermarket.This guy knows what he is talking about. Skip the track pack though, the 3.73s = terrible MPG
I get 20mpg on a 80 mph highway. Got around the same with the WRX I had. IDK if that's terrible or not in your opinion.
It's not above 3000rpm.
You can probably pick up a used G37 or 370Z for this price. However for that kind of car, heavish rwd, the Mustang is better value IMO.
It's really a tough ask without your definitions of practical. I find my C30 really practical but not 100% fun stock. Now that I have Koni FSD, the Volvo OEM lowering springs and a racing beat rear sway bar on it, that helped out the fun factory a lot and it's still a really comfortable and quiet daily run about. It's really grown on me. It is after all the same exact chassis and motor as the prior generation Focus ST that Volvo softened up.
All of those changes were under $1200 and the car itself is under 22K for just about everything I see. I get good gas mileage (22/31 on average) and if you want a little more HP, the polestar tune keeps the factory warranty. With the suspension and Polestar you are still under 25K with a very practical and comfortable DD.
Fun as in sold from the factory in a performance-oriented package. I don't have access to work on my car in the least right now.
Practical in that it can hold a suitcase hidden from onlookers in the trunk. No crazy expensive maintenance schedule, nor terrible gas mileage that requires premium. Premium in itself isn't an issue. Reasonable price of consumables.
If I had my way I would be in a Cayman, but it would make me worry way to much. I don't want to live Vonnegut's story of the Powder Blue Dragon.
I really liked the BRZ I drove last month.
But we have a lot of uncertainty and the rumors of a mid-cycle update have me holding off. As well as what power plant will be in the new Miata.
Mitchell wrote: Fun as in sold from the factory in a performance-oriented package. I don't have access to work on my car in the least right now. Practical in that it can hold a suitcase hidden from onlookers in the trunk. No crazy expensive maintenance schedule, nor terrible gas mileage that requires premium. Premium in itself isn't an issue. Reasonable price of consumables. If I had my way I would be in a Cayman, but it would make me worry way to much. I don't want to live Vonnegut's story of the Powder Blue Dragon.
You are backing yourself into a Frisbee. Go drive one. What do you have to lose?
The only thing I have to lose is freedom from a car payment. And I really think that the Frisbee is the right car for me; I just need to wait around for the right time to buy.
z31maniac wrote: I really liked the BRZ I drove last month. But we have a lot of uncertainty and the rumors of a mid-cycle update have me holding off. As well as what power plant will be in the new Miata.
Well the rpm gauge on it shows a 7500rpm redline, which no 4 cylinder has on their lineup. If it's a 2l i'm guessing near 200hp like the FRS.
You should definitely look at a FRS/BRZ. They're among the best driver's car being produced now, and they're practical.
Drive the Fiesta ST. If you want to spend $25k, you can always hit the Cobb catalog. Rear seats with doors, hatchback, good mileage make it very practical. If it's just too small or underpowered, you simply walk over to the Focus ST.
Contradiction wrote: I'd like to add a RSB and I'm hoping that by then there will be an aftermarket shock for it from Koni, Bilstein, etc. so I can do a mild drop with H&R springs and aftermarket shocks.
If you want lowering springs without having to change dampers, go Vogtland. I've got 3yrs plus daily driven 325es with their springs and KYB "replacement" struts, they're living just fine. I've got probably 20k miles or better on the Focus, stock struts, no worries. I imagine at some point their springs will be available for your car.
Auto-x wise, I can say I have fun in the Focus, they're definitely better than stock, but I don't know how they'd fare vs. H&Rs around the cones. But, they ride easier than H&Rs, and I'm old, so that works well for me.
I want to go coils when it's time to replace the struts, but if not, I suspect the springs would perform better still with good struts.
Sorry for the thread jack. 
kanaric wrote:z31maniac wrote: I really liked the BRZ I drove last month. But we have a lot of uncertainty and the rumors of a mid-cycle update have me holding off. As well as what power plant will be in the new Miata.Well the rpm gauge on it shows a 7500rpm redline, which no 4 cylinder has on their lineup. If it's a 2l i'm guessing near 200hp like the FRS.
It's literally the EXACT same drivetrain as the FR-S.
Where have you been?
The back seat of the FRS/BRZ is mostly unusable for adults over 5 feet tall or so, but you did say lightly practical. The Focus ST is great fun, I have a 2014 one. It's definitely more practical overall than the FRS/BRZ, but if I really only needed some luggage space and didn't need to cart a toddler around I would have gone FRS/BRZ. The car is really nice to drive, has a great cockpit.
Since seeing the new Mustang in the flesh, all I can say is... Wow. I love the design, and the Ecoboost is right up my alley. If I go that route, I will definitely have to wait a bit longer (or until my Focus is no longer worth fixing) to adjust my budget and let early pricing shenanigans recede a bit.
Stopped by mazda, Ford, and Scion dealerships today.
I first stopped by Scion. The salesman threw me the keys, so we took it on a few-mile loop. I loved the seats; comfortable with the right amount of bolstering. Everything in the interior felt right at hand. Popping the hood, all the bits looked familiar as parts and reasonably serviceable, No shield hiding the unknown beneath. Then, there was the drive: the clutch took a few minutes to get acclimated with, and the engine didn't sound super sporting, but the steering and chassis were divine.
At Ford, I sat in the Focus ST with Recaros, and didn't find it to be a conforable place to be. The Fiesta felt like a newer version of my SVT focus. I wasn't interested in test driving either after 30 seconds sitting in the driver's seats. They didn't have any Ecoboost Mustangs on the lot, but they had a zero-option '15 V6 MT in the showroom. The interior was night and day above the '14 GT they had just a few feet away.
Last stop was Mazda. They had a clubsport PRHT with the 6-speed available. The clutch was great, the shifter smooth, and it's a lot better looking than most miatae. It even sounded pretty good when jamming the go pedal. It was an excellent driver, but the $4.5k premium over the Scion and minimal interior space didn't convince me that it was better than the FR-S.
Cliff notes: Frisbees are still on top; I just want to drive the '15 Ecoboost Mustang before committing to anything.
Mitchell wrote: The FR-S has been the apple of my eye for the last few years; it really does tick all of the right boxes. I recall the FR-S and BR-Z having slightly different suspension tuning at some point; has this changed?
Yes, for 2015 they "neutered" the FRS and made the handling like the BRZ... too many drivers not knowing how to drive and drifting into things with the FRS I guess. So if you want the original suspension tuned FRS you need a 2013 or 2014.
Your budget appears to allow for an HPD CR-Z - a Honda CR-Z with a handful of Honda official, dealer serviceable, warranty friendly HPD stuff installed. I think you could get the supercharger in there, for a 197hp output. I bought my car, a 16k CPO 2013, two months ago for $15.5k. Honda has since updated their site with the 2015 (I don't see changes) so you might be able to score a reasonable discount on a new 2014.
Vracer111 wrote:Mitchell wrote: The FR-S has been the apple of my eye for the last few years; it really does tick all of the right boxes. I recall the FR-S and BR-Z having slightly different suspension tuning at some point; has this changed?Yes, for 2015 they "neutered" the FRS and made the handling like the BRZ... too many drivers not knowing how to drive and drifting into things with the FRS I guess. So if you want the original suspension tuned FRS you need a 2013 or 2014.
I did not know that. Interesting info regarding choosing one for autocross.
The FRS is faster with the new suspension tuning. I wouldn't worry about it.
It may be 'faster', but it lost a special characteristic that differentiated its handling from the BRZ...now they are truly identical twins. Love the rotation of my '13 FRS... would not mind if I could get it to rotate even quicker. I manage steering by steering wheel pressure along with minute throttle pressure simultaneously not by regulating wheel movement distance and pedal position...well that's about the best way I can describe it. I'll take rotation speed over more stability/ride control; my '13 FRS is extremely stable and manageable at and over the limit to me.
Do the FRS/BRZ cars have a factory limited slip diff as an option?
In reply to Mike:
I had not seen that version of the CR-Z before, thanks. 1.5 liters of superchared Factory Honda, nice.
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