Getting the proper value on a total loss?

I am looking for some help in getting the proper market value for my 94' Integra GS-R from State Farm. What I had was a nice original driver condition car with some recent maintenance done, and my neighbor backed into the quarter panel pretty hard. My car is original down to the stock exhaust and is a relative rarity because most were abused and wrecked by teenagers ten years ago. Because of its age I knew the insurance company would likely total the car so no surprise there. But now the offers I have received are very low for a well kept original GS-R and more in line with a beaten RS/LS/GS Integra.

The first offer was $2400 for the car, which was entirely too low. The claim representative originally said it was based on NADA and Autosource values, but later checked closer and determined it was based on a similar condition 94' LS with adjustments to match the value of my vehicle. I tried to explain that the lower trim levels are not comparable cars and disagreed with the offer.

The second offer was made from dealer quotes, which increased to $3200 which is still quite low for the vehicle. I could not buy a comparable 94' GS-R for that amount, most are going in the $4-5k range.

I offered to do all of the homework to find ads for similar cars for sale of the GS-R trim level but that has proven unacceptable thus far. I also asked about submitting receipts for work completed on the car (new tires, timing belt, wp, clutch, etc) and was told only an engine or transmission replacement would add value. Which is exactly the opposite from when I had a total loss vehicle a few years ago.

Help!

Before (Stock wheels with brand new ZIIs in the garage)

After

My vehicle:

94' 148k $4200? OBO

Similar vehicles:

95' 120k $8000 - high asking price http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/4435169897.html

95' 164k $3500 - higher miles, still more than offer from state farm http://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/cto/4450459895.html

96' 202k $4900 - higher miles http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/4428277983.html

96' 170k $4500 - higher miles http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/4415581938.html

98' 156k $6000 - newer with higher miles http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/4419948141.html

I've had two cars totaled, and they tried to lowball me each time. Both times they had an appraising service find "comparable" cars. In both cases, I found that they cherry picked the cheapest versions of the car that they could find, usually a few trim levels below my car. I asked to see their "comparable" cars, and then provided my own examples. When my well cared for Eagle Talon was totaled, they tried to use base model FWD non turbo cars, and averaged those to come up with the value. One was even rusty. In California. You need to work hard to find a rusty car less the 30 years old here. I got no where over the phone. I ended up showing up at the main office of the insurance company with a stack of paperwork and pictures of my car, and pictures of the cars they said were comparable. I got what I asked for. My last one was my Nissan Titan. They first offered me 11k for it. Same deal, they had a list of "comparable" vehicles. I had them show me the list. They were lower trim levels with 3x the mileage of my truck. I sent them my list, and ended up getting around 17k and bought the truck back for 5k. I had a friend that had a their very clean Galant VR4 totaled. They were offered pretty much scrap value for it. They had recently had the car serviced at a well respected shop that specialized in those cars. The shop wrote a letter attesting to the condition and value of the car, and they got a LOT more for it, close to $10k if I recall correctly.

Also, they less they think they can give you, the more likely they are to total it. Did they actually estimate how much the repair would cost? If you get the value high enough, they may decide to fix it instead. That can be a good or bad thing depending on your situation (are you planning on buying it back, how does your state handle salvage titles, etc.).

Hey,

I had a similar situation with State Farm about 20 years ago. They totaled the car for about 3k, I bought it back for about $300, and I fixed if for $1800. Because there was no loan involved, there was no impact on the title status.

They aren't gonna fix it.

Good luck,

Rog

not that you should settle for a low ball offer, but id imagine $3200 would buy that back and fix it, with about 2k left over...

I have always had very fair offers from state farm. Buy that back and repair it...it is barely damaged.

My last one was a E250. They low balled it. I offered receipts for a hitch, new tires and $500 in graphics and they upped the offer by $1500.

You're in PA, so my advice will be especially relevant.

So you're dealing with State Farm, the biggest company in PA and the most stubborn of nearly all of them. Upside is the car is still drivable, so you can drag this out as long as it takes.

First, let me address some of your car-guy-goggles comments: Only you and a handful of other Acura-ites care that it's "all original down to the exhaust". Rare? 98% of the population doesn't care. It's just an old Acura Integra ('94 is a really old car these days) with 148k on it. Who buys these cars? Kids. Kids have no money, so it doesn't help keep prices up. Looks like a rust bubble on the qtr panel, so it's no museum piece. You've got a nice old Honda there, and it's nice that you like it, but the rest of the world simply doesn't care. That thing is old news. Harsh, but the truth.

So, accepting that your car is no Buick GNX, let's move on to the land of reality. Your maintenance work is meaningless and adds no value to a car that old. Everything is market driven. Most people don't know what a timing belt is, so again, on the open market (think Craigslist) none of that matters as far as the value of the car as a whole is concerned. The tires should have been measured for tread depth, and that will factor in slightly on the value, but the car is valued as a whole, meaning that it is assumed in valuing a car that it has 4 tires on it already that are in good condition. New tires only bump up the value incrementally. When people want to keep their new tires off their totaled vehicle, I don't argue with them, because it can be cost effective to pay to swap them around and take the hit for some junk ones if they plan on buying a car that can use the same size.

So, to the valuation. Old stuff is more difficult to value, because there are fewer of them on the road, fewer still change hands, etc. So the data is often lacking. The value does need to reflect comparisons to the same car, so it is not unrealistic to expect them to use only GS-R's. But, same year and very similar mileage also matter. You can't use newer ones; even if it's the same car, it isn't accurate. Mileage can be mathematically adjusted, but IMO if they are within 10-15k miles of the subject it's close enough on something that old. So, finding comparables that are truly identical is the key. And then you have to remember that 'sale price' is not the same as 'retail asking price'. So a car advertised for some silly amount is meaningless if it has no hope of finding a buyer. I like completed eBay auctions for actual proof of what something SELLS for. If you find privately offered cars, if you can contact the seller and get an agreed 'take price' for the car and quote the seller's name and date, that may help, though I've never gone that far. Dealer quotes: are useless in my opinion, but PA has them in the appraiser's law so they are legal. Dealers will tell anyone what they want to hear and frankly don't want their time wasted, so very few will throw out any kind of accurate number. I mean, how likely is it that a Acura dealer is going to give a realistic quote on a car they would normally just toss in the wholesale line to go to auction? But, by PA law, they are considered a fair source.

So, if you can arm yourself with REAL comparables at REAL selling prices, you may be armed well enough to do battle. If you can't get a supervisor to approve the difference, then just take them to the local district justice court, present your evidence, and take what you get. In my personal experience going to these things, the car owner has always won. If not the amount they want, at least half of the 'gap' between what is desired and what is offered. Most district justices will side with the individual vs the big, bad insurance company mostly on personal bias. Sometimes I think it's fair, sometimes I can't believe the audacity. The insurer can always appeal, but it will cost them so much money they normally don't bother.

You can, of course, take whatever you get and retain the car but you'll have to go through PA's stupid salvage title process. While not hard, it's a hassle, and the 'enhanced inspection' will cost you a few bucks. That qtr panel could probably be repaired by a good metal tech, but as an estimator I'd probably write to replace it. Probably cost $1500-$2000 to fix, and I don't think that color is a clearcoat so no blend to the door means a perfect color match is unlikely. But, it is a '94 and not on collector plates, so you have to take what you can get.

Similar experience with a STS prepped Miata a few years ago. Totaled, they offered low, with low comps from outside the area. I found higher comps that were local and similar miles. Ignored the suspension and mods. Most were used car dealers with pretty high asking prices. Documented it. Just like a project for work really. We met at a fair value. I bought the car back, I sold it for $500 more. Then bought a better version of my old car.

Good luck man.

Having just dealt with the same crap with the same insurance company back in Feb/March, here's my take: SF will low ball you again and again. Their comparables suck (they used cars with up to 70K more miles than mine, complete base models with none of my options, and damaged vehicles, not to mention from markets 200+ miles away).

What you need to do is find cars for sale in your local area that are the same year plus or minus 1 year with as close to the mileage as you can get. Be absolutely insistent on the difference between a GS-R and a base LS/GS model. Use the "you wouldn't use a 2WD V6 truck to compare to a 4x4 V8" line if you have to. Take those printouts and send them in to the total loss adjuster along with what you feel your car is worth compared to them.

If it goes anything like mine did, you'll have to do this at least three times, then end up on the phone with a supervisor for a higher value authorization anyway. Good luck. (Oh, and switch insurance companies.)

I spent a week fighting with the adjuster only to keep getting the same run around. I finally went above his head and got a MUCH better offer from his boss, so don't be afraid to run it up the chain, but make sure you've found good relevant comps you can show them as well as receipts for any recent work done.

That being said I'd push for them to fix it. I know how pics and the internet are,so hate to actually say this, but the damage really doesn't look all that bad.

Hire your own appraisal service. When my car got totalled they offered 1600 for it. I went online and got an appraiser who came out and sent a letter in saying the car was worth more like 7500, I ended up with 5300 after buying the car back. The appraiser cost something like 450 but paying that was kind of a no brainer.