On next gen fuel cells. Ok. No problem. I am not a genius but even I know this can't be right:
GM, Honda said: Fuel cell vehicles can operate on renewable hydrogen made from sources like wind and biomass.
On next gen fuel cells. Ok. No problem. I am not a genius but even I know this can't be right:
GM, Honda said: Fuel cell vehicles can operate on renewable hydrogen made from sources like wind and biomass.
When is the 1st manual transmission service due?
Hennessy Honda of Woodstock sucks a bag of dicks
Pipe dreams sprinkled with pixy dust and unicorn tears to make the radical green people happy. And Toyota is kicking there buts in this market segment so why not go after Toyota together.
Hydrogen isn't really a good choice right now, as it takes more electrical energy to make than you get out of it, and you can use that electrical energy directly in EVs and skip the whole hydrogen generation step. And I can't think that we can gather enough hydrogen from biomass easily to cover much of our energy needs. Hydrogen, being the smallest atom, tends to leak out of containers unless very expensively made. Yes, you can refuel as fast as with gasoline, but the infrastructure to deliver it will have to be created from scratch at great cost.
Just seems a bit of a waste compared to other alternatives.
besides, GM's already got battery tech that's about to leapfrog Tesla in energy density, while costing half of what the Volt's battery pack costs...
Chris_V wrote: besides, GM's already got battery tech that's about to leapfrog Tesla in energy density, while costing half of what the Volt's battery pack costs...
Can you substantiate that? I know of a company that can fit a Prius worth of energy into a battery the size of the one on my truck. Then again, they've been trying to work out the bugs for the last five years or so - and on it goes. I spoke with a Toyota engineer about 5 years ago, and even back then they were spending roughly $1 mil/day on battery research. A superbattery is practically the holy grail of auto engineering right now.
Will they sell a manual transmission for it?
Satchel of phalluses.
aussiesmg wrote: Hennessy Honda of Woodstock sucks a bag of dicks
So are we taking this Hennesy Honda / bag of dicks thing to the rest of the world? Because there are a lot of people out there in Facebookland and on The Tweeter...
Never understood the obsession with fuel cells. Can't we just burn hydrogen in a piston engine? That's tech we have now, at a much, much lower cost. The efficiency may be less, but the pollution level is the same if I remember correctly.
Water vapor is the green house gas that is rarely talked about. /flounder
I can't understand why CNG is not used more. Domestically produced, cheap, clean, I don't know if mileage is a problem. What CR can you use with it? How does it work with forced induction?
kreb wrote:Chris_V wrote: besides, GM's already got battery tech that's about to leapfrog Tesla in energy density, while costing half of what the Volt's battery pack costs...Can you substantiate that? I know of a company that can fit a Prius worth of energy into a battery the size of the one on my truck. Then again, they've been trying to work out the bugs for the last five years or so - and on it goes. I spoke with a Toyota engineer about 5 years ago, and even back then they were spending roughly $1 mil/day on battery research. A superbattery is practically the holy grail of auto engineering right now.
"Unlike Tesla Motors which has gone on record saying by 2016 it will offer a Nissan Leaf-beating, 200-mile-range electric car in the low $30,000-range, General Motors plays its hand much closer to its chest, but it would be inadvisable to think the giant is sleeping.
On Wednesday last week at the annual conference of Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association, GM’s head of global R&D let his guard down slightly in saying prototype electric cars now being evaluated on U.S. test tracks have triple the energy density of a Chevrolet Volt, and close to double that of a Tesla Model S.
A Volt has about 140 watt-hours per kilogram energy density in its LG Chem lithium-ion T-shaped battery pack. Tesla’s “skateboard” chassis now uses Panasonic cells that reportedly deliver as much as 240 Wh/kg, and Tesla CEO Elon Musk said to expect more.
And so has GM in so many words.
“Today there are prototypes out there with 400 Watt-hours per kilogram,” said Dr. J. Gary Smyth, executive director of Global Research and Development, General Motors Company.
This he said in a post-meeting interview to Canadian journalist, Chris Vander Doelen, a writer for The Windsor Star."
Chances are good that Smyth’s statement was a veiled reference to Envia Systems chemistry.
Smyth added the mystery batteries will cost much less than batteries in today’s electric cars and they’ll have a “big impact” on the auto industry and “it completely changes the equation” on cost, range, and vehicle packaging.
“We’re putting a lot of effort into developing battery cells,” Smyth told Vander Doelen in the post-meeting interview.
The figure of “400 Watt-hours per kilogram” stated by Smyth is however the specific claim of Envia Systems, a battery supplier in Newark, Calif., and known to be working with GM, and GM has also invested in Envia through its forward looking GM Ventures division.
Last August, GM CEO Dan Akerson – who’s also known to let the proverbial horses out of the stable on occasion – called Envia Systems a “game changer” just as Smyth might have this week."
http://gm-volt.com/2013/06/10/is-gm-and-envia-systems-preparing-to-take-on-nissan-and-tesla/
What I'd like to see with fuel cells is someone make a fuel cell that can run on gasoline and/or diesel oil. The electrical grid and gas stations already exist - no counterpart for hydrogen stations.
This won't be the first time Honda and GM have collaborated.
Remember the Saturn VUE Redline? Don't feel bad.....no one else does either!
All V6 Vues had the Accord V6 in them, AFAIK. Honda traded it to GM for On*Star.
noddaz wrote: I am not a genius but even I know this can't be right:GM, Honda said: Fuel cell vehicles can operate on renewable hydrogen made from sources like wind and biomass.
Not sure how smart it is, but it's technically correct. You can get hydrogen by using any power source to separate it from water.
In reply to Duke:
Wasn't it a passport underneath as well?
Why use Hydrogen when Methonol is cheaper and easier to make and store.EFOY makes some nice small ones for boats and cabins
There is no free energy. It takes as much ( or more, given less than 1 efficiency) energy to split the H2O as you get by making it in combustion. Electric cars will be the future because you are directly using the stored energy. Hydrogen powered cars are similar in concept to steam powered - you can burn gas to boil water and use the energy stored in the steam to move the car, but you are WAY more efficient to directly use the energy in the gas though internal combustion.
An argument can be made that using plant-generated electricity to split the hydrogen remotely from it's use on-vehicle is more efficient, but this starts to pale as storage and distribution expense is included.
Battery tech is the main thing holding back electric cars right now. We’re in the eight-track era of alternative energy and electric cars. Sure, they’re functional, but when we finally get to the real solution we’re going to look back and wonder what the hell we were thinking.
Didn't the Malibu MAXX use a Honda V6, also?
Why not inject hydrogen directly into a combustion engine and skip the using hydrogen to make electricity?
93EXCivic wrote: Why not inject hydrogen directly into a combustion engine and skip the using hydrogen to make electricity?
Been done. 
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/hre/about/
93EXCivic wrote: Why not inject hydrogen directly into a combustion engine and skip the using hydrogen to make electricity?
Because you're still using electrical energy to generate the hydrogen, thus using electricity to power an ICE car. Kind of backwards, though cheaper to do than a fuel cell car.
93EXCivic wrote: Why not inject hydrogen directly into a combustion engine and skip the using hydrogen to make electricity?
It's been done, but those engine usually end-up more polluting than a regular gas engine. I think Mazda did one about ten years ago.
While hydrogen burning with oxygen produces H2O, when your burning it with air, it also produces nitrous and nitric oxyde, which are very potent greenhouse gas.
Also, hydrogen is not very knock resistant, so you need a low compression ratio (less efficient) or some sort of diesel (hard to inject hydrogen).
Chris_V wrote:93EXCivic wrote: Why not inject hydrogen directly into a combustion engine and skip the using hydrogen to make electricity?Because you're still using electrical energy to generate the hydrogen, thus using electricity to power an ICE car. Kind of backwards, though cheaper to do than a fuel cell car.
Plus you get the horrendous energy efficiency of an ICE rather than the roughly 2x better efficiency of a fuel cell, or better yet the 90%+ efficiency of a pure EV which also cuts out the hydrogen middleman.
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