Good motors to swap into a GT6?

The Toyota V6's are used in RWD aps, like Trucks. Then you'd need a drive shaft, rear end, axles, U joints, etc.

Toyota BEAMS 3sge? 2.0 litre, ~200hp.

Basically it was the K20, but like..... 8 or 9 years earlier. You can get it RWD with a 6-speed, and that might actually save you some time, somehow.

It's cheaper than the S2000 motor, too.

Dr. Hess wrote: The Toyota V6's are used in RWD aps, like Trucks. Then you'd need a drive shaft, rear end, axles, U joints, etc.

This thread just got Toyota-bombed real quick....

I've considered the VR6 for my GT6. They are very sturdy. And a bit heavy I believe.

As for bellhousings, I had a business idea to combine CAD, waterjet, and welding technology to create custom bellhousings on demand. The CAD designs the flat pieces, the waterjet cuts them out, and the welding does final assembly. The front and rear plates would be easy, just need to scan/digitize once and keep them in a CAD library for re-use. The 'bell' part would be a series of flat triangles, maybe with a couple of interlocking tabs designed in at the seams to aid in assembly alignment. For assembly, a heavy duty plate with a stout heavy threaded shaft, and a threaded conical piece to keep the trans plate centered and aligned. align and clamp the motor side ring to the plate. Assemble the 'bell' pieces and then the trans plate. Then tack the bits together, and final weld.

Could supply any motor to any tranny on demand.

Could do steel or aluminum.

Wonder if there's enough of a market to make it viable?

Carter

This will be my first comment on grassrootsmotorsports, just wanted to jump in and comment on my swap since it has been discussed in this thread. I am guy building the Ls1 Gt6 mentioned I believe on pg. 2 of this thread. To address a couple concerns with the Ls1 in the Gt6, I think it fits wonderfully. Granted, it wasn't easy, the biggest concern was the moving of the steering rack to put the engine low enough to clear the stock bonnet. The firewall hasn't been brought back into the cockpit, it was trimmed a bit above the bellhousing to make getting the engine and trans in a bit easier. The rollcage was designed around having the seat mounted as far back as it would go so there isn't a concern there. The transmission does crowd my legs a bit to the side but that isn't really a function of the engine but the trans. There are many adapter plates available now to back your Ls1 with other transmissions than the T56 to gain some room. As far as packaging and weight and power potential I think the Ls1 and it's family of engines make it a great choice on many engine swaps.

Jensenman wrote: 'Idiotic' as in the bump steer because the tie rods are WAY too short because the rack itself is WAY too long. The Ackerman is bass ackwards because the rack is WAY too far forward. Those things were done at the factory to accomodate the engine's position as cheaply as possible. The Ackerman in particular is a PITA because the outer tire turns more than the inner (it should be the other way around). This means that when the steering is turned far enough, the outer tire can 'push' against the tie rod hard enough to yank the steering out of your hands, particularly if running R comps. It doesn't help that the basic design is prewar. It's 'fixable', the rack has to be cut down to put the inner tie rod ball joints at ~22" apart. This winds up moving the steering shaft about 1 1/4" to the right. The rack has to move back about 2", this means the front of the suspension 'tower' has to be notched and then reinforced.

I've always thought that half the fun of driving a vintage car is PRECISELY the quirks...especially in steering and suspension. If you take away the quirks, put a modern engine in, etc....well, then you just have a modern car with a crappy interior and doors that don't close quietly.

When I want to handle, I take the WRX. When I want to enjoy the quirks of a vintage car, I take the GT6.

That said, how about do something that I've never seen in a GT6: an AWD setup? 325ix drivetrain perhaps?

Or for an engine idea for RWD...how about a subie boxer turbo? Lots of aftermarket support, compact engine, and very lightweight....

well i am happy I came across this thread since i have spent the past few days looking at the GT6 in my driveway and trying to decide what to do...The wiring is a mess but it is 98% complete...so i have been taking measurements to decide if I want to:

1) Get it running with what it has now, stock 2) Swap it over to Fuel injection: iam 24, and have little desire to learn the ins and outs of carbs 3) I have been taking measurements for a M20 motor (e30 325i)

The biggest problem is the steering rack and cross member. The stock motor has the oil resivior and pickup in the rear to make room for them...so I would have to get a custom oil pan made, and see if it is possible to run the oil pickup to the rear.

then there is the problem of making sure it fits, I would like to make the motor sit vertical rather than the angle BMW has it sitting at...not sure if that is possible...then custom intake and exhaust, then the trouble with the shifter

I would like the car to have close to 200hp and the reliability of FI...plus its what i know...its hard to get there with the stock motor (and expensive)...so ill see how it pans out...

I took some measurements off an E21 3 series yesterday since it was all they had in pull-a-part...ill see how those line up later today and post up what i find out...

i hope i don't have to start looking into major frame modifications but it may be what it takes...

I'm sure it has been mentioned, but I think a turbo Miata mill would fit nicely.

The biggest possible problem with a Subie motor would be the width... that's pretty much the problem with most engine swaps into a Spitfire or GT6. My gut says the exhaust ports of the heads would exit right over the frame rails... of course, if you're willing to reconstruct the entire front half of the frame and redesign the front suspension, all bets are off.

200 hp out of a GT6 engine should be possible... although it might not be cheap... it'll need to internal work (compression bump, lightening and balancing, etc). Personally, my "dream GT6" right now is to ditch the boat-anchor I-6 altogether and drop in a well breathed-on I-4 1500 w/ EFI. I hated what that engine did to the handling in my Spit 6.

I agree with irish to a certain extent regarding changing too much in a vintage car... although I'm still debating on the steering in my Volvo... heavy and slow... a R&P w/ power conversion sounds really nice...

I keep coming back to a V6 or a modern turbo 4, mostly for packaging reasons. A slant 4 like the Beemer motor should greatly simplify the whole thing.

Lowering the steering rack would be a PITA but should be worth it, when you look at how much lower the engine can sit and the opportunity to fix the steering quirks. Sure, the quirks are part of the car's character but I personally get aggravated in a tight turn when I feel the steering getting a mind of its own.

3.8L Buick with a huffernator.

Well, if you really want to keep a 6 in it and not make it a GT4, then... 7MGTE should do it nicely.

7MGTE would stick out almost to the nose. Seriously. That's a big ol' motor compared to the GT6 lump. Triumph had a tough time getting the 2.0 under there.

The Mazda rotary works - very well. There is/was a guy out here on the west coast who did just that... think his name is Fred Miranda. Anyhow, he built a nasty autocross terror with a turbo rotary and really cleaned up. I think he used a Datsun 510 rear end, too.

If you want to stick to pistons, the Miata and S2000 are about right.

Jensenman wrote: A slant 4 like the Beemer motor should greatly simplify the whole thing.

You would think, but not really... in a packaging sense, a BMW slant 4 has the same problems as a V8: the passenger side of the frame is where the header wants to go. A S14 or an M42 barely fits in an E30... and that body has the packaging benefits of front struts and being a unibody.

Never worked on one but the numbers seem pretty good:

GM Atlas/Vortec I6 (LL8):

For 2006, power was increased to 291 hp (217 kW) at 6000 rpm and torque to 277 ft·lbf (376 N·m) at 4800 rpm with the addition of a MAF and a complete internal redesign of the engine. The Atlas LL8 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2002 through 2005. Engine redline is 6300 rpm.

Should be showing up in junkyards by now. If it needs to be smaller, there's 4 and 5 cylinder versions too.

Or you could use a 1G-GZTE Should fit real nice.

Shawn

The Duratec was offered in RWD form with 5 speed in 2001+ Rangers. It even has the oilpan hump at the rear, perfect for Spit/GT6. Kind of tall, won't fit under a Spit bonnet without some surgery, but maybe would fit under the GT6 bubble. Exhaust is on the passenger side. Might have an issue with intake hardware clearing the steering shaft. Perhaps Megasquirt with a custom intake? Injectors are in the head, should make it a bit easier.

Here's Loren's blog on fitting one into a Spit: http://invisiblesun.org/blog/

Carter

Just noticed on BritishV8.com a Spitfire with a S2K engine/trans in it backed with a C5 rear and home made suspension... Needed a cowl-scoop to cover the engine, but otherwise, doesn't look too bad.

kb58 wrote: The Mazda rotary works - very well. There is/was a guy out here on the west coast who did just that... think his name is Fred Miranda. Anyhow, he built a nasty autocross terror with a turbo rotary and really cleaned up. I think he used a Datsun 510 rear end, too. If you want to stick to pistons, the Miata and S2000 are about right.

Yes. What he said.

I've built one rotary Spitfire so I have the engineering 'in the can' so to speak. A 230ish HP 13BT would make a GT6 a holy terror.

Still gnawing on all the thoughts... there's another project in line ahead of the GT6 at the moment, though.

so would a normally aspirated 3 rotor. that should net you about 250 ish RWHP with a good exhaust system.

Grrr...

3 rotor hotness

In reply to mblommel: I looked into I5 for a GT6+. It's relatively cheap and very light, around 300 lbs, but the entire "Atlas" family of engines is too tall. Even converted to a dry sump it's over 34 inches.

Now that I've picked up a 2nd GT6, the thought is once again in my head about this topic. Having one "stockish" drivetrain and one with a modern lump would be fun. I'm almost annoyed that the engine in the mk3 I just got is the one part of the car that's in damn good condition, lol...giving me no justification to take it out

I've always thought the real solution is what a few people have done....move the stock engine back 4-6" for better balance, build it to a reliable 150hp, and bring the car's weight down in the 1600-1700lb range (FG bonnet, coil spring rear suspension, stripped interior, fiberglass wings, etc). Thus giving a p/w ratio roughly on par with an STi or Evo.

Don't know the dimensions, but what about the motor from the Tbird SC? Probably a tad heavy.