Goodbye High Performance GM unit

It sounds like the accountants will be running the company again. Eventually they will balance the books by laying off people and building fewer cars. Meanwhile South Korean manufacturers will be building the economy and performance cars that Detroit claims they can't make any money building, and a few years later Detroit will be wanting even more taxpayer money because nobody is buying the cars they want to build at the prices they want to charge for them.

Is it me or does it seem like they're killing off the wrong stuff? I would think that SUV's and large sedans would be the ones to get the axe first.

The weird thing: Buick had 6% of the US market when I was with a GM dealership, probably the lowest market penetration of any of the GM divisions unless you counted the specialty stuff like HUMMER etc. They were talking about killing it off in 2007.

http://www.articlesbase.com/automotive-articles/gm-giving-buick-one-last-chance-123661.html

I can't find any of the latest figures for Pontiac as a division but the GXP had 2% of the US market by itself. Sure, Buick is a big deal in China but not over here. So why is GM killing off the better selling brand here in the States? It makes no sense.

I just stopped by the local chevy dealer to see if they had a cobalt ss, becasue honestly if it is as good as i had heard, I would have considered buying one. But, they said since its discontinued, the dealers will no longer be getting anymore of them, but when they had, they were sold withing 3-5 days. So why are they going to quit making them again?

Jensenman wrote: The weird thing: Buick had 6% of the US market when I was with a GM dealership, probably the lowest market penetration of any of the GM divisions unless you counted the specialty stuff like HUMMER etc. They were talking about killing it off in 2007. http://www.articlesbase.com/automotive-articles/gm-giving-buick-one-last-chance-123661.html I can't find any of the latest figures for Pontiac as a division but the GXP had 2% of the US market by itself. Sure, Buick is a big deal in China but not over here. So why is GM killing off the better selling brand here in the States? It makes no sense.

Why don't they just kill Buick over here and re-badge Chevrolets as Buicks in China. Nobody in this country under the age of 65 wants a Buick.

I still don't understand why they need Chevy trucks AND GMC trucks. I know they have a million marketing reasons but to me, a truck is a truck. Trucks are for hauling and towing. Bigger is better for both of those activities. Who cares about badges and option packages. You need 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and one ton duallys. The cheap package for businesses and the plush package for rich guys who tow race cars and horse trailers. SUVs would be a spinoff of the plush package. Done!

Here would be my reorganization. Chevrolet for cheap sedans, trucks and Corvettes. Pontiac for Sports cars and Sedans. Cadillac for luxury.

Import some cheap cars for Chevy and some sporty cars for Pontiac.

Kill Saturn, Buick and GMC.

Take your most successful dealers in each area and re-organize them into GM Dealers that sell all three surviving nameplates. Make them GM/Chevrolet/Pontiac/Cadillac Dealers. Get rid of the rest of the dealers that don't fit into the new matrix. Done!

I'm all for eliminating this Badge engineering. Make them ALL GM, each vehicle with it's own Identity. I mean, really, no-one gets a Chevy 1 ton mixed up with the Corvette.....

Xceler8x wrote: Is it me or does it seem like they're killing off the wrong stuff? I would think that SUV's and large sedans would be the ones to get the axe first.

I dunno. When most Americans think "family vehicle," they usually think of SUVs and large sedans. For example, Ford and GM, if I'm not mistaken, no longer have minivans, and have hedged their bets that crossover SUVs are the new minivan.

Snowdoggie wrote: Take your most successful dealers in each area and re-organize them into GM Dealers that sell all three surviving nameplates. Make them GM/Chevrolet/Pontiac/Cadillac Dealers. Get rid of the rest of the dealers that don't fit into the new matrix. Done!

From what I've read, this is precisely the reason why GM chose not to get rid of Buick and GMC: they can't afford to buy out all of the Buick/GMC/Pontiac dealers.

ignorant wrote: It is probably hard to justify them on a balance sheet. Quantifying the effect of those cars is difficult.

Performance cars would be the only thing that could get me into their showroom. Well, maybe a "Going out of business, 75% off" sale might too.

Loads of people like us are going to step into a Hyundai dealer for the first time to see the Genesis Coupe so keep telling yourself that halo cars don't bring in business.

I'll never forget when the Ford GT came out. The little po-dunk Ford dealer in Ferndale, WA got one and advertised in the paper that it would be in the showroom (it was not pre-sold). So a friend and I grabbed our cameras and drove up to see it. We obviously did not have the wherewithal to purchase this car (both in our early 20's in the military) yet the dealer very courteously opened the whole car up, let us sit in it, take pictures, and even started it for us. It was truly awesome. A year later when that friend needed a new car for his wife, they went to that Ford dealer and bought a year old Mazda 6. That halo car and that dealer's attitude brought them a sale and two loyal people who will continue to share that story.

If I follow your line of logic, then when the Genesis Coupe comes out, all other Hyundai models, from the bottom up, will see a significant boost in sales?

I'm still not entirely convinced that a halo car, or along the lines of the present topic, hot-rodded versions of cars, bring in significant business.

I would argue that there are other, more important, factors at work -- the quality of the "regular" cars and customer service. Toyota, for example, hasn't had a halo car (or many sporty cars, period) for years, and yet they sell a lot of cars. Hyundai themselves, up to this point, don't have a halo car and yet they are still making significant gains in marketshare.

Having a bunch of guys work on hot-rodding cars is all fine and dandy when your other vehicles bring in the sales to support it. However, GM needs to focus its attention on its bread-and-butter automobiles, and if that means taking these brilliant engineers and putting their talents to use on regular cars, then so be it.

However, GM does need something to give their cars a competitive advantage. And some of their past cars have done too much damage for their present reputation for that advantage to be an ironclad reputation for reliability like what Toyota has. Unless this reorganization manages to cut costs drastically, I also don't see that advantage being lower prices like Hyundai's strategy. Having a high performance version of a car that's popular for enthusiasts is one competitive advantage they could roll out pretty quickly. Look at what it did for the first generation Neon; these sold quite well and the ACR program meant they still have a cult following to this day. I don't think the Neon would have sold nearly the way it did if it hadn't been for the ACR.

MadScientistMatt wrote: Look at what it did for the first generation Neon; these sold quite well and the ACR program meant they still have a cult following to this day. I don't think the Neon would have sold nearly the way it did if it hadn't been for the ACR.

highly doubtful..

This is not the time to use "performance" as competitive advantage. The market demands a solid good car that has the same brand perception as toyota...

yuejals wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: Take your most successful dealers in each area and re-organize them into GM Dealers that sell all three surviving nameplates. Make them GM/Chevrolet/Pontiac/Cadillac Dealers. Get rid of the rest of the dealers that don't fit into the new matrix. Done!

From what I've read, this is precisely the reason why GM chose not to get rid of Buick and GMC: they can't afford to buy out all of the Buick/GMC/Pontiac dealers.

This makes me wonder how much GM bailout money will go to buying out dealers they no longer need. They shut down production, lay people off, then pay off the guys who own the dealers so they can go retire to the same exclusive towns that CEOs go to when they retire.

Again the rich guys get bailed out by the taxpayers and the working guys get screwed. Maybe they should go through bankruptcy so the dealer agreements can be voided by the judge.

MadScientistMatt wrote: However, GM does need something to give their cars a competitive advantage. And some of their past cars have done too much damage for their present reputation for that advantage to be an ironclad reputation for reliability like what Toyota has. Unless this reorganization manages to cut costs drastically, I also don't see that advantage being lower prices like Hyundai's strategy. Having a high performance version of a car that's popular for enthusiasts is one competitive advantage they could roll out pretty quickly. Look at what it did for the first generation Neon; these sold quite well and the ACR program meant they still have a cult following to this day. I don't think the Neon would have sold nearly the way it did if it hadn't been for the ACR.

I think this is why WE bought so many of them.... not why the general public ate it up. The general public ate it up because it was a cheap compact car that FINALLY competed with the japanese offerings. It nullified the excuse of all those americans that won't buy Japanese cars simply... Because they're Japanese.

This should work out great for my redneck 401K..

Please, kill of Pontiac and do it quick.

My '73 Firebird Formula 350 needs to appreciate some more.

I don't mind if they kill of more divisions, it'll just make my cars worth more.

I like the Solstice but Pontiac jumped the shark when they killed off the Fiero.

Shawn

I agree 100% with Snowdoggie. Actually, with all of your posts, Snow.

If there were only some way to get the shareholders to somehow put you (or someone with the same common-sense view) in charge of GM...

It's kind of funny...when people complain about cars I usually hear complaints about the dealers and the sales experience UNLESS it's a no haggle style dealership. Maybe the right route would be to phase out some of the old skool dinosaur dealerships that make buying a car an adversarial process?

Trans_Maro wrote: This should work out great for my redneck 401K.. Please, kill of Pontiac and do it quick. My '73 Firebird Formula 350 needs to appreciate some more. I don't mind if they kill of more divisions, it'll just make my cars worth more. I like the Solstice but Pontiac jumped the shark when they killed off the Fiero. Shawn

Thinkin' problem here... Killing off Oldsmobile didn't do anything for old Cutlasses, Killing off Pontiacs will not do anything for the Formula 401K.

Trans_Maro wrote: This should work out great for my redneck 401K.. Please, kill of Pontiac and do it quick. My '73 Firebird Formula 350 needs to appreciate some more. I don't mind if they kill of more divisions, it'll just make my cars worth more. I like the Solstice but Pontiac jumped the shark when they killed off the Fiero. Shawn

My neighbor is restoring a very nice 1972 Trans Am. I KNEW I should have kept my old Fiero.

PorschesOnTheCheap wrote: I agree 100% with Snowdoggie. Actually, with all of your posts, Snow. If there were only some way to get the shareholders to somehow put you (or someone with the same common-sense view) in charge of GM...

And be forced to move to Michigan?? Noooooooo!

even a dog could do a better job than the current heads at GM. If you say these fast enoug, they outline the current comprehension levels of GMs upper management (WARNING - Floundering ahead)

we todd it

what are did

reed tar dead

wheat are debt

I feel a lil better now...And now I must mourn the Cobalt SS I never had the chance to own new

Xceler8x wrote: Is it me or does it seem like they're killing off the wrong stuff? I would think that SUV's and large sedans would be the ones to get the axe first.

Only for the people who read this board.

And I bet a very small percentage of this actual board would go into a dealer and buy a brand new hot rod. Yea, someone did go back to a dealer and get a USED car, but that only benefits the dealer, not Ford or Mazda.

GM still has the vette.

Oh, and P71- you don't HAVE to have a halo car to attract buys- see all the V6 auto Mustangs that are sold. What's cool is IF you can sell the "halo" models with a significant mark up.

GM needs to concentrate on making all of their customers happy. And based on percentages, if they ignore this board, and make the rest of their customers REALLY happy, they'd be better off than the opposite. (lest we forget #1 selling vehicle- Pick up, top selling cars- Camry, Accord. Not exactly exciting)

It's interesting to see us pat ourselves on the back in terms of "driving" the auto industry- thinking that we have so much influence on what people buy. Sad, but not true at all. The actual numbers of buyers who care about driving is minescule. And gets smaller when gas prices go up.

Still, not sure about this move. Usually, you can make good money selling aftermarket parts at a premium, since you get the benefit of direct engineering for best fit/use, and it still has the brand name on the product. I loved reading the book GM put out how to make 1200hp from the Ecotec.

Eric

And I bet a very small percentage of this actual board would go into a dealer and buy a brand new hot rod. Yea, someone did go back to a dealer and get a USED car, but that only benefits the dealer, not Ford or Mazda.

At this point I would actually consider a new car if I could find something I like. I am tired facing the weekend with endless lists of things I have to do on the old cars. It would be nice to have at lease one car I didn't have to work on all the time that I could depend on for work.

But the Yaris and the Aveo and the Fit are not really sport hatches. The remind me of shrunken minivans and they seem to be going after the same market. And the Mini is just too damned much money at 30K and even the Clubman is too small to haul two large huskies around like I used to do with my Swift GT and my CRX. If somebody would make a small sport hatchback for around 12K to 15K that was like my old CRXsi or my Swift GT, I would be all over it. The market is split between appliance cars and high end sporty cars with nothing in between. Why can't they make a Fit si or a Kia Rio GTi?

Add that to the fact that they are learning so much from adding performance to these engineering projcts.

When the Ecotec came out they were not a great power making engine, in the Cavalier they were rather buzzy and peaky. 6 years later they are very smooth and exceptionally fun to drive.