GTO Handling

My search for a C5 Z06 hasn't been going too well... All the ones that I've been finding for sale are dealer cars and I'd rather buy from a private party for multiple reasons.

I've put off my car search momentarily to do some research on GTOs. My biggest concern is the car's handling. On the GTO forums, some have said that the car handles very well, and with some mods, could be an E46 M3 alternative. Others have said that it handles like a steamboat.

Since I've come to no conclusive answer, I guess I'd ask here since many of you have driven / driven against GTO's. What's your take on their handling capabilities?

I owned an 04 GTO from 04-08. I vote steamboat.

All fixable (balance, wheel hop, etc) with the exception it is tough to get serious meat under it. 275 is about as large as you can go without some surgery.

I just picked up a used BMW 6 series (645ci/650i) 6-speed for cheap. It is a far better GTO for not much more money on the used market. u should consider it if looking at a GTO.

• Large tires fit with ease (I run 285 and there is plenty of room for more)
• has a twin disk clutch so pedal effort is light (not with the GTO)
• weighs 3815 which is actually lighter than the GTO. all the weight is in the chassis and interior as fenders/trunk are plastic and hood/doors are aluminum. Control arms are aluminum too.
• 4.8L has 366 hp with higher redline than LS1/2.

RandyS wrote: I owned an 04 GTO from 04-08. I vote steamboat. All fixable (balance, wheel hop, etc) with the exception it is tough to get serious meat under it. 275 is about as large as you can go without some surgery. I just picked up a BMW 6 series (645ci/650i) 6-speed for cheap. It is a far better GTO for not much more money on the used market. * Large tires fit with ease (I run 285 and there is plenty of room for more) * has a twin disk clutch so pedal effort is light (not with the GTO) * weighs 3815 which is actually lighter than the GTO. all the weight is in the chassis and interior as fenders/trunk are plastic and hood/doors are aluminum. Control arms are aluminum too. * 4.8L has 366 hp with higher redline than LS1/2.

I vote your entire post is incorrect. I purchased an 04 GTO new as did five of my friends(04-06). Pedal effort is not heavy for anyone that has a functioning left leg. My GTO weighed 3770 at the track. BMW might have a slighty higher redline,doesn't offset the lack of torque and HP(ls2). Not to mention that any mods on the BMW are ridiculously expensive and reliability is suspect. Not true for the GTO Keeping the BMW running in general will be much more expensive and the GTO with minor inexpensive mods, will eat the 6 series alive on the track. When I tracked my car, I was able to keep up/pass M3's, WRX's, etc. My only mods were proper pads, brake fluid and tires. The car ran flawlessly and has never required a dealer visit. Other than a defective ignition key and door lock, none of my friends GTO's have required any repairs either. One owns two Ferraris and loves his GTO. Great cars that offer great value.

Having driven/owned both my vote goes to the 6 series. YMMV. Don't dissmiss it until you have driven one.

trust me when I say there is no lack of torque. I can light up the 285s through 3 gears.

If you do get a GTO, check the bushings and the front struts. The bushings can get sloppy and cause uneven tire wear, and in some cases make it difficult to do a wheel alignment. Whiteline and Pedders sell replacement polyurethane bushings that eliminate the slop without much of a NVH penalty.

The front struts on the 2004-05 GTOs had a weld or protrusion that, in rare cases, rubbed the top of the back of the front tires and even caused blowouts. There was a recall or TSB to replace these with 06 struts. You're probably going to replace the struts anyway, but bring a pencil and check the clearance between the tire and the strut before buying an 04-05.

I've never driven a BMW (anything) but if you think the pedal effort in the GTO is high, you're high. Try driving something from the 60's with a rockcrusher. Heck, the hot small block Vettes will hurt your leg after a few dozen city miles. The GTO was as easy as anything normal.

In reply to RandyS:

How much does a good 650i go for? I'd very much consider them if they're around the same price range for a respectable example.

Sounds like a lot of people here like the GTO's handling, but since it sounds like the 6 series is a better handling car, I think I could give up some power for that.

You should price the alternator for both of those cars.

According to RockAuto.com, a Bosch reman'd for a 2006 650i is $449.99.

A BRAND NEW ACDelco for a 2006 GTO is $226.79.

I would imagine that's a similar theme throughout.

Yeah, nevermind on the 6 series. Their initial cost is much higher as well... However, I've heard that people are having a hard time finding replacement parts for the GTO (obviously not the alternator, of course, but other parts). Might be something I would want to consider.

I'm still interested in seeing what people have to say about the GTO's handling though.

Mr Clarkson seems to like it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE743OksKtU

You should be able to find a lot of the parts you need for the GTO, I can't imagine that would be a huge problem.

I had an '04. Mine had a modified suspension, so I can't really say what the stock one is like. Other owners told me that it has some body roll in stock form, but takes a nice set in the corners and holds well. My car handled like it was on rails. Sure, it was a bit heavy, but it still was a lot of fun on twisty roads.

I'm telling you, go drive one. It's a fantastic all around car.

racerfink wrote: You should price the alternator for both of those cars. According to RockAuto.com, a Bosch reman'd for a 2006 650i is $449.99. A BRAND NEW ACDelco for a 2006 GTO is $226.79. I would imagine that's a similar theme throughout.

Something to keep in mind about that BMW alternator.. I belive it is watercooled.

RandyS wrote: Having driven/owned both my vote goes to the 6 series. YMMV. Don't dissmiss it until you have driven one. trust me when I say there is no lack of torque. I can light up the 285s through 3 gears.

I've driven and owned one as well. Also a number of M3's, an M5, three five series from an E28 to the latest gen, a shark or two, a three series assortment,etc. I'll take the GTO over the 6 series for a number of reasons. Don't even get me started on my BMW's needing two V8's replaced under warranty, the craptastic plastic radiator fails, the suspension bits that prematurely wear, the ridiculous location of the batteries, the fail prone water pumps, the very expensive shocks that don't last,etc,etc,etc. No where near that misery with the GTO. Besides, I have no doubt the GTO would beat the BMW around the track as well.

I walked around one (GTO) once at about 120 in my Esprit. He couldn't put the power down on a turn.

vincephan wrote: In reply to RandyS: How much does a good 650i go for? I'd very much consider them if they're around the same price range for a respectable example. Sounds like a lot of people here like the GTO's handling, but since it sounds like the 6 series is a better handling car, I think I could give up some power for that.

Says who? one post that I can see. You'll be giving up power,torque, reliability and a gigantic hole in your wallet to own the BMW. The GTO's OEM tires are dismal, change those, the pads,etc and they handle quite well.

Dr. Hess wrote: I walked around one (GTO) once at about 120 in my Esprit. He couldn't put the power down on a turn.

Who, the driver or the car?

forzav12 wrote:

RandyS wrote: Having driven/owned both my vote goes to the 6 series. YMMV. Don't dissmiss it until you have driven one. trust me when I say there is no lack of torque. I can light up the 285s through 3 gears.

I've driven and owned one as well. Also a number of M3's, an M5, three five series from an E28 to the latest gen, a shark or two, a three series assortment,etc. I'll take the GTO over the 6 series for a number of reasons. Don't even get me started on my BMW's needing two V8's replaced under warranty, the craptastic plastic radiator fails, the suspension bits that prematurely wear, the ridiculous location of the batteries, the fail prone water pumps, the very expensive shocks that don't last,etc,etc,etc. No where near that misery with the GTO. Besides, I have no doubt the GTO would beat the BMW around the track as well.

Ah yes... because a GTO doesn't have plastic end tanks on its radiator.

forzav12 wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: I walked around one (GTO) once at about 120 in my Esprit. He couldn't put the power down on a turn.

Who, the driver or the car?

The car. As I casually went around him on the outside of the turn, I watched him on the inside try to put the power down and the car get loose and he had to back off. 500 HP don't do you any good if you can't put it down.

IMO . . . The GTO is an awesome GT cruiser. While setup a "bit" soft, once it takes a set is hustles very well in the right hands.

Want one to handle . . .

1. Get better tires (Stock all seasons are junk)
2. Get some pads on there (If it's an 04, upgrade to the 05/06 front brake setup)
3. Visit a Pedders/Whiteline suspension supplier + a good alignment. They have all types of packages mild to stoopid
4. Some choice weight reduction

After that drive the wheels off as you please.

I drove a 6 series for a long stint and it plowed more than a GTO . . . but YMMV

In reply to Dr. Hess:

500HP? So supercharged and modified then? On a 275 tire (widest that will fit without rolling) no wonder he had issues. My modified 289 Mustang couldn't put the power down out the corners either, so they all must handle like crap as well.

The GTO is a great car and parts are no harder for it than any other performance car, Vette included. Tires, brake pads, and fluid are all that's needed to turn it into a track day weapon.

i have autocrossed a 650i and it is better than a car of that girth has a right to be.

i have also ridden in the back seat of a 650i and it is horribly cramped for even a moderately-sized adult -- i'm 5'9", 175#, and i could not sit up straight in the back seat.

i have ridden in the back seat of an '06 GTO and was comfortable for the 2 hour drive.

Yeah, the one I walked was a bit souped up, I later heard. He lived near a friend of mine. He also blew it up a few months later on the track at Hallett.

I would take the GTO over a BMW any day.

I currently own a 2004 GTO (with the 5.7 LS1) and I love it. It handles decently however as it has been addressed here there a few common things that need to be replaced. The Radius rod bushings are a must if you plan on tracking it, but besides that brakes, fluid and tires will get you rolling. The power is fantastic, the t56 shifts well and there are great options for short throw shifters, and parts are available.

The downside that I've come across (and I believe that this is the same for corvettes) is you do pay a premium for GTO specific parts. Headers/exhaust is pretty pricey. As mentioned before bigger tires can be problematic. The good news with all models is the LSX. Cams/heads/etc are readily available and can make great power for relatively little cash.

The GTO is a great road car and a bargain of the decade. Lets be serious though - nothing 3800 lbs is a good track day car. Not a GTO, Laguna Seca 302 Mustang, not an E92 M3, M5, not a 650i, not a Ferrari 599.

They can all get around OK while cameras are rolling and even pretty quickly but if track day weapons are your prime driver for purchase you are so far off the mark that you might as well get a Ford Raptor.