Harnesses - used OK for HPDE? Head and neck restraints opinions?

Now that track season is over for me it's time to upgrade the safety gear in the M3. It's getting a roll bar (not cage, yet at least), a pair of Sparco Evo 2 Plus seats, and harnesses. The Sparcos are on the way, NIB from a great deal I scrounged up on a Corvette forum (the sales guy has them in his Miata so the company selling them is clearly OK). I'll either bolt in a Kirk or Autopower bar or have one custom fabbed, but that's easy.

To the point - I'm looking at harnesses and am considering going used. For HPDE is there any real concern about using "out of date" harnesses? For roughly the same price as a nice Sparco Profi III HANS 6-point harness that's only got one year of FIA certification left I can get a slightly lesser-featured camlock 6-point harness (e.g. G-Force, Ultra Shield). I've just started looking and I suspect that I can get "expired" harnesses even cheaper, especially as race season comes to a close.

Also, any opinions on HANS vs. defNder vs. Rage? Would you buy a used HANS if the seller swore that it hadn't been put to the ultimate test?

Depending on the requirements of the people running the show, I wouldn't wear a HANS device during a track day. You shouldn't be racing or running hard enough to crash. Yeah, I know, it still happens, but it just seems like overkill at a track day. Don't some organizations park you if you get all 4 wheels off the pavement? For belts or harnesses, I'd just buy new and not play around. Belts are cheap enough and you'll get many years of use out of them. Again, if you are dead set on getting a HANS, new is the only way to be sure. Buying someone else's used safety gear is not smart in my opinion. If you wouldn't purchase a used helmet (and why would you?) it makes no sense to buy used neck braces or belts.

You can get a set of new 5 pt. latch and link belts for less than $70 ~here~..

But I agree, there are many decent out-of-date belts around that racers might give you (I have three old sets...I just gave one away and the other two are going in my latest street project).

As for a HANS device, I use one for (vintage) racing. But I don't use it when I run a track day in my street Miata (partly because the car has stock belts that I'd prefer not to change). If you do run a HANS, be sure the shoulder harnesses mounting points are drilled close enough to each other. With 3" belts, the belts should basically touch at the mounting point (or be very close to touching).

I'll be the contrasting opinion. I'd use pre-owned or out of date harnesses for HPDE (and have). The key here is the condition of them. They should look like they are new. The degradation of harnesses from what I've read is mostly related to the environment. The dating is keyed towards open cockpit cars where the webbing is subject to the whims of weather, sun, etc. Closed cockpit cars are not as hard on them, and my expired ones from my hill climb days looked brand spankin' new when the dates expired. I wouldn't be afraid to rely on them, but that's my personal decision. The ones in my real race car get used a bit more often and I'd maybe be a bit more reluctant to recommend those. One option you may want to consider is buying new-in-the-box expired ones which you can find at year's end. It's useless inventory for most vendors.

I wouldn't wear a H&N device for HPDE unless you're at a high level and/or drive something with some real speed. I concur that you shouldn't be driving at a level where it should be needed, but understand the "what if" philosophy also. Keep in mind a HANS doesn't like regular wide shoulder belts and is a real PITA to use with them. I can't wait to change my belts for HANS specific ones. I've only ever used the HANS but have no quarrel with it aside from that. If you do go this route, make sure the helmet you use is made for it. I tried to retrofit my HANS to my old G-Force and it was a no-go.

I would think hard about the cam locks. One of the local guys has them in his C6. At the last HPDE, the tail got loose at better than 100MPH in the kink at CMP. While correcting the slide, his hand hit the cam lock and released his belts. I can't think of a worse time for that to happen. I don't know if his are worn, or possibility were not fastened all the way.

I'll go along with the "New belts are cheap, just buy them." crowd, if only because you never know when some over zealous tech guy will send you home.

As to the Hans, if it makes you happy, wear one. The sliding tether design is a nice addition, and while the Hans specific belts are probably nice, I've had no trouble at all with 3" belts. The trick is to mount them close together, and have a seat with the harness holes located properly.

Make sure you mount your harness bar at the right height. My car was built before hans, and someday I'm going to move the harness bar up about an inch- the extra thickness of the hans, or the way the harness runs, or something puts a bit more downward pressure on my back when I tighten the belts.

IMHO, a H&N restraint is one of the pieces of safety gear that makes an incredible amount of sense at any driving event. I won't go on track without one. I own the Simpson Hybrid Rage Pro.

I'd buy new belts. They're so cheap, why bother with anything else?

robert

don't understand the idea of not running as hard as you're competent to run ( PDX / HPDE ) ... maybe as a HPED 1 / PDX novice... but by the time you reach the upper levels of intermediate / advanced ( HPDE 3 /4 ) you should be approaching ( key here is APPROACHING ) the limits of the car and the driver... otherwise stay in novice or HPDE 1...

so even though my CRX doesn't have the speed of a Z 06 or M5 etc.. there still is the chance something bad could happen and all the safety gear I can get is what I'll have ... 4 pt roll bar, 6 pt harness, H/N restraint, race seat ... etc

at my last PDX ( actually a TT 2 event ) the brakes failed going into the fastest corner on the course (turn 8 at CMP ) got away with no damage ... but you just don't know ahead of time

Wb, were you at the last SCCA PDX at CMP? Is your CRX black? If so I was the big guy with the leather hat on.

wbjones wrote: don't understand the idea of not running as hard as you're competent to run ( PDX / HPDE ) ... maybe as a HPED 1 / PDX novice... but by the time you reach the upper levels of intermediate / advanced ( HPDE 3 /4 ) you should be approaching ( key here is APPROACHING ) the limits of the car and the driver... otherwise stay in novice or HPDE 1...

Agreed - in 6 days at WGI I advanced from stone cold novice (D) to advanced (B) to recommended to A Solo with BMWCCA (top level and run with the instructors group) for next school. It's definitely time to upgrade the safety gear and the car - my instructors have consistently said that I'm driving the car at the limits of what it can do with the stock suspension and RE11 street tires. For reference, I was turning pretty consistent 2:31 laps on the long course, with a couple in the 2:29s (timed with Harry's Lap Timer) with my 250# instructor on board. Top speeds were 130 entering the bus stop. I'm definitely running as hard as I can

Toyman01 wrote: Wb, were you at the last SCCA PDX at CMP? Is your CRX black? If so I was the big guy with the leather hat on.

that be me.... I remember meeting you at Black Lake last yr ....

if you know who the flaggers at T8 were you might pass on an apology to them... I'm sure that with the second hard rt as I tried the brakes they were ready to head for the woods.. ... decided I had lots of sand trap straight ahead in which to slow down ....

You should always run the best safety equipment you can. That means a HANS device and good, new, harnesses.

The autopower rollbar for the E46 M3 isn't that great, the Kirk bar fits better.