HDHCDDRB

Yeah. You want to know what that means don't you? Or maybe you already do. You guys have come up with longer acronyms before.

I'm looking for a new roll bar for the Miata to make it, well, legal for all the events I've been doing. Yeah, apparently, the crappy-looking hoop that I have is, well, crap. I was instructed by an EMRA official to get the Hard Dog Hard Core Dual Diagonal Roll Bar.

Flyin' Miata has the one I think I need. I am running a soft top with a plastic rear window so clearance is not an issue--no hard top in the future.

What does an install generally entail? It's a bolt-in (which will be fine for the events I do). Does a new kit come with detailed instructions?

The RB is redundant, that bar is known as the HCHTDD. The M1 is implied, the 1999-05 version would be an M2HCHTDD.

Instructions

Good bar, but the Hard Top version isn't as tall as the normal Hard Core. It's better for street use as it sits a bit further back from your skull, but the side latches on a hardtop won't work with the latter. The downside to the Hard Top is that it's harder to get under it. Almost impossible for most North American males.

If your ruling body will accept the height of the Hard Top, then go for it. For maximum protection, consider the normal Hard Core. The double diagonal option is nice, but the single will be just as legal although it will interfere more with rear vision.

I definitely don't want the hard top bar--I need all the height I can get out of it. And I think the increase in price is worth the added niceness of the double-diagonal's rear view--wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for your help!

up up down down left right left right B A start

InigoMontoya wrote: up up down down left right left right B A start

No, idiot. That's 99 guys. It's up down up down left right left right B A Select (two players to install this top) Start.

Ugh.

And for the record, I had the theme song for Contra in my head today and yesterday. It happens quite often, actually.

The single diagonal was the original design. Since the double diagonal has appeared, it has pretty much taken all the sales. I was just sayin' - tech inspector told you to get a DD, but there's no official reason for it.

Keep in mind the Hard Core will sit far forward. Far enough that if you drive with the seat all the way back (I'm the only Miata driver in the world who doesn't, if you believe the internets) you'll be able to rest your head on it while driving. Padding is not optional, it's required. Hard Dog makes a good formed SFI pad for the bar that is hidden by a vinyl or leather cover. Looks great and protects the padding from UV damage.

I used to play PC games, not console. I have no idea what you Colecovision kids are talking about.

Keith wrote: Keep in mind the Hard Core will sit far forward. Far enough that if you drive with the seat all the way back (I'm the only Miata driver in the world who doesn't, if you believe the internets) you'll be able to rest your head on it while driving.

I guess that just proves that you can't believe the internets because my seat is nowhere close to all the way back.

I had the M2HDHCSD on my 00, loved it. Definitely didn't pass the broomstick test though...

The instructions were pretty good if I remember and install was pretty straightforward. I think it took me most of a day going taking my time.

I installed mine by myself and it wasn't too bad. I'll admit my carpet cutting job wasn't the best but no one has noticed in the last three years...

Oh and I run a hard top with it now, I just removed the side latches. I think a couple companies make replacement latches that work with the roll bar but I haven't bothered looking too far into it.

I'll also chime in that my bar install took most of a day. It's not hard, just time consuming. Especially if you put alot of time into carpet and panel trimming...

Also, I loved Contra as a kid. That stinkin code will die with me it's so ingrained.

Not a difficult install, but will take the better part of a day. Lots of trim to remove, trim, and reinstall. Def. a two person job.

I have the hard-top double-diagonal version. I pass the broomstick test with a race bucket, but not with a stock seat. Stock seat w/ deep foamectomy would probably pass. With the hardtop mounted, nobody has ever checked.

The hardtop is good for track days - the Miata has horrible aero and the top down only makes it worse. Also a little extra protection. I ran it both ways. Top down was nice, but after racing a fully-prepped race-car, I found I liked all the protection I could get, so the hard top eventually stayed on at the track.

If I may say so, the Miata looks like it should have had a roll bar stock. It just turns it from possibly girlie to serious sports car. IMHO.

thatsnowinnebago wrote: Oh and I run a hard top with it now, I just removed the side latches.

Which bar?

I bought my bar second-hand, but I was told it was a HDHCDDHT, or maybe a M2 version. I haven't yet put a hardtop on, and when that time comes, I hope to have a cage installed. Mine doesn't pass the broomstick test, and after my second HPDE, I was suggested to "fix it," so I bought another seat and did a foamectomy.

confuZion3 wrote: What does an install generally entail? It's a bolt-in (which will be fine for the events I do). Does a new kit come with detailed instructions?

I installed mine using only the instructions I found on miata.net. I bought new grade 8 fasteners and a tube of autobody seam sealer. I kinda messed up when cutting one interior panel, but I figured it out before cutting the second--I'd suggest you find someone else whose car you can use as a template. I think I had to buy a long drill bit, but I had all the other tools on hand.

I just installed a Hard Core Hard Top Single Diagonal last week in my 96. This is the second time I've installed one. The directions aren't that great, but the customer service is outstanding and if you measure carefully it's not so bad. Visibility would be much better with the Double Diagonal, but I hate the way that they look. One of the toughest parts is keeping the folded top out of the way as you measure, cut and fit the bar. Here are some photos of the install:

You start with this:

After measuring out from hole for the center carpet button, I marked a spot and drilled a hole with 2 1/2 inch hole saw thinking that this would give me a smoother radius. This was a mistake for a few reasons. First, it threw chips everywhere. Second, the hole didn't need to be that big. I finished the cut with a scrolling jigsaw, which would have worked for the whole job.

I'm fairly certain that the rear supports on the Sport bar come straight down here rather than curving down on the HCHT.

I've fit the bar in place alone, but it's much easier with a helper. Only try it alone if you have no other other option.

Before drilling the holes through the floor, make sure you scrape away any seam sealer. The slightest bit between the mounting plate and the floor will translate into a pretty big misalignment.

If possible, route these wires behind the bar on both sides (I didn't). There's not a lot of slack, and it will be difficult to tighten the bolt without pinching the wire with the wrench, but I'd rather have it behind there.

I used a carpet that I had already cut for another car. That one had a full cage based on an HD Sport, so it's a little sloppy but still looks okay. I also used trim panels that I had cut for another car a few years ago, so I don't remember all of the details about cutting them.

Here's the finished product in profile with the seat all the way back.

Definitely spring for the fitted padding and cover. It's well worth it. Note that I had to add extra padding for the seat position that I use. This is temporary, as I will probably swap to race seats as soon as I can find the right brackets.

confuZion3 wrote: I definitely don't want the hard top bar--I need all the height I can get out of it. And I think the increase in price is worth the added niceness of the double-diagonal's rear view--wouldn't you agree? Thanks for your help!

I don't mind the somewhat-obstructed rear view that I get with my dual diagonals. I've never driven a single-diagonal, so I cannot tell if there's a difference, but you will get used to the obstruction (tweaking your mirror helps).

I find the DD obstructs the view more Than the single. Your eyesview things right behind the mirror in double, so that puts an image of one diagonal on either side of the view behind. Not so with a double diagonal.

Joey

Kramer wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: I definitely don't want the hard top bar--I need all the height I can get out of it. And I think the increase in price is worth the added niceness of the double-diagonal's rear view--wouldn't you agree? Thanks for your help!

I don't mind the somewhat-obstructed rear view that I get with my dual diagonals. I've never driven a single-diagonal, so I cannot tell if there's a difference, but you will get used to the obstruction (tweaking your mirror helps).

I've got the single diagonal bar, but wish I'd gone for the double. I didn't even consider a difference in visibility before the installation. When I sat down and looked in the rear-view after the installation, I was very surprised to see a metal bar in my way.

That said, I've gotten used to it and don't notice much anymore. Mostly when I'm checking for the 5-0.

I'll try to get a better shot of the rear visibility with the single, but this will give you an idea of what you're working with.

Looked like a harley acromen, but its not in sprockets, so i should have gussed miata

Gratuitous plug: Mazda MX-5 Performance Projects by Keith Tanner includes a roll bar install

Okay, enough of that.

The double diagonal setup "frames" the rear view mirror, while the single diagonal can cut right across it. It depends on how you sit in the car. If you have a 1996-05 Miata, you have the ability to adjust the mirror up and down and this can make quite a difference.

My recommendation for installation is to do the main bar installation one day, then come back later for the carpet and trim. You want to do that when you're fresh and patient, not when you're trying to boogie through the last few steps in time for dinner and possibly suffering from too many refreshing beverages. Also, when drilling holes, you can drill one of the rear holes from above then put the backing plate on (get the orientation right!) and drill the others from the bottom. When dealing with slotted holes, go to the outside edge of them. If you do it this way, you don't need the 12" bit.

A full set of Grade 8 fasteners is included with new bars, so Kramer's purchase of hardware was only because he got a used bar.

Keith wrote: If you have a 1996-05 Miata, you have the ability to adjust the mirror up and down and this can make quite a difference.

I also added one of these:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=529

I cut the brackets off the back, drilled four holes, made a pad to go in between and cable tied it to my mirror.

I'll add that it's nice to use an angle drill and short drill bit if you have access to one to drill the holes for the munting plates from the trunk.

...and Keith's book was helpful, as well. If you don't have it yet, buy a copy. If you do, then buy another one.

MCarp22 wrote:

thatsnowinnebago wrote: Oh and I run a hard top with it now, I just removed the side latches.

Which bar?

The HDHCDD