Helical LSD choices

Hello. I'm trying to decide which would be a good option for an LSD on my R53 Mini Cooper S. This will be mostly a daily driver but occasionally going to Autocross or track events. My two main choices are Wavetrac and Quaife. I am NOT looking for a clutch type LSD due to price and having to rebuild it, so those are out of the question. Anyone have experiences with those two options, preferably on a FWD car? Thanks.

I put a Quaife in my MKII GTI track car and absolutely loved it. Completely changed the dynamics of the car. Went from typical understeer when using throttle mid corner to actually pulling in to a tighter radius on throttle.

In reply to NEALSMO:

That's what I'm looking for. I'm leaning towards the Wavetrac due to the fact that "supposedly" it works even if one wheel is in the air. Now I know I'll probably NOT have one wheel in the air for daily driving lol. But it seems nice that it's a feature that might come in handy for 1% of the time I drive this car aggressively. Plus the price isn't that different between the two. But the Quaife is a damn good LSD too.

Can someone persuade me or someone with a Wavetrac chime in? Thanks.

Can't comment on the Wavetrak specifically, but can comment on factory R56S Mini LSD (cone clutch) vs Torsen (Miata) vs Viscous type (G35) if you're interested. All with many laps on a 3rd gear/uphill/decreasing radius turn with a big compression bump in the middle - T3 at NHMS.

Mini - Lost time with ~60% power going to spinning inside wheel. I'd give it a 6 on a scale of 10.

G35 - Had to feather throttle more to keep inside wheelspin down as well. Surprisingly the VLSD engagement was not smooth, back end would kick out quick when that thing finally hooked up. Another 6.

Miata - Factory Quaife style Type 1 Torsen on a 200 WHP turbo car. It was perfect in comparison to the others. Smooth predictable engagement and low easily modulated wheelspin. I'd give it a 9, because there may be something better somewhere. IMO can't go wrong with a Quaife.

Wavetrac and Quaife are both great quality-wise. The difference is that the Wavetrac design can self-load to prevent one-wheel-peeling when there's very little to no traction on one wheel.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

That's why i'm leaning towards the wavetrac but trying to figure out which diff has more power going to the wheel with grip. Ive heard that the quaife is aroung 75% or so. I don't know about the Wavetrac.

I've got 85k on a Diffsonline 3-clutch diff on my 330i and it still works great. I wouldn't discount clutch type just because they can be rebuilt. I don't think you can go wrong with any quality diff.

I had an '03 S with 205hp at the wheel...could not put the power down anywhere....yellow triangle fun police all day.

In reply to Tyler H:

I understand as a performance diff the clutch type can't be beat. Id go for an OS Giken if they weren't so expensive.

N7Prime wrote: In reply to Tyler H: I understand as a performance diff the clutch type can't be beat. Id go for an OS Giken if they weren't so expensive.

It depends. I like a clutch type for RWD, as it can have some preload and doesn't go open when you let off the throttle (can be more consistent when on/off the throttle). But that induces understeer in FWD, so clutch types aren't so good there.

And beyond that, it depends on the chassis and driver. Different car/driver combos may react better to different types of diffs.

In reply to rslifkin:

Yeah. If I still had my miata I would have kept the factory torsen and not wasted my money on another gear type. But now I want that FWD turn in and pure traction on acceleration. I won't necessarily be using the best tires for daily driving in terms of grip. Nothing cheap and dangerous though. Hopefully some supersports down the line since their price isn't bad in my tire size. :p

Still leaning towards the wavetrac but they haven't been in the R53 world for too long.

For super budget I did go with a phantom grip (FWD Detroit Locker) on a VR6 GTI once. Was a huge improvement for ~$250 but was only ~50% of what a real LSD would do. I have heard they wear out eventually but never had an issue.

In reply to 84FSP:

I don't want anything that will do only 50% of what a real LSD does. I want the real deal and something I won't have to worry about because I don't want to drop and open the transmission a second time. The Phantom grip seems to be like the LSD option for the R53: Not super great, but certainly better than nothing.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Keep them coming.

I've also looked at MFactory and was impressed at everything apart from the warrenty. They want a "Certified MFactory approved technician" to install the LSD AND a receipt to prove it.

Nah.

I used a Peloquin (Quaife replica) on a Mk2 Jetta. Car had a cam, header, ported head on 2.0 block. Mainly street but more than occasional autocross use. Never had it on track. It was fantastic. Very smooth, never could feel it lock/unlock as of course they never do. On tight corners on a rainy parking lot it was magical.

What about OBX?

I just realized I can get an OBX helical LSD for one of my challenge eligible cars and still be under challenge budget...

OBX is a Chinese knock off of Quaiffe. Their build quality can be questionable, many of the Neon diffs had to have their bellville washers reinstalled in the proper orientation, otherwise they seem to work just fine.

I have a wavetrac installed on my VW MK3. I installed it due to the poor droop of the strut suspension making it difficult to lay its measly 115HP down. Its one wheel peel was most dangerous in merge situations.

Installation totally transformed the car. In slip situations, the car claws its way towards the direction you aim the wheels. It can now put all of its power down to the road. No more one wheel peel outs. The car is way more competent. If you push hard enough, yes you can still over saturate the front end and understeer it out, but it is much, much harder to do so.

I don't think anyone would complain about FWD if every car came with a LSD. I would install a LSD on all my fwd cars if I could. My more mundane cars don't get that option. You will not be disappointed.

About the wavetrac, I am not sure mine is functioning correctly as I can still peel out a wheel if one side is on ice. It is either of limited value or not functioning. Still, the car is amazing despite this minor annoyance. Torsen all the way.

shuttlepilot wrote: About the wavetrac, I am not sure mine is functioning correctly as I can still peel out a wheel if one side is on ice. It is either of limited value or not functioning. Still, the car is amazing despite this minor annoyance. Torsen all the way.

Any diff other than a completely locked one has a limit to how much power it can bias from one side to the other. So if there's a huge difference in traction from side to side, you'll only be able to put down so much power before the low traction side starts to spin. It'll still be putting more power to the high traction side though.

An open diff on the other hand splits power 50/50. So if it takes 10 ft lbs to spin the low traction side, you'll only get 10 ft lbs to the high traction side. An LSD that can bias 5:1 would be able to put 50 ft lbs to the high traction side when the low traction side starts to spin at 10 ft lbs.

I believe the wavetrac functionality pretty much reduces the chance for the wheel to spin while in the air FOR A SPLIT SECOND and nothing else, and on prolonged use it'll just act kind of like a regular gear type LSD.

I'm going for the Quaife. Thanks guys.

N7Prime wrote: I'm going for the Quaife. Thanks guys.

Awesome! Keep us posted on your installation experience and driving impressions.

Dangit. You chose before I could add my experience of how a Torsen T2-R completely changed the Fairmont's dynamics on corner exit.

I ran an OBX helical in a 240sx for a while. I re-did the belleville washers and used upgraded fasteners up-front. It worked well initially, but developed significant slop after a year of autocross on a Street Prepared car with about 165rwhp and running 275/35/17 Hoosiers. I could feel it wind up before starting to work when exiting a corner.

Change of plans. I got a Wavetrac. Yey. I'll keep you guys posted.

N7Prime wrote: In reply to Tyler H: I understand as a performance diff the clutch type can't be beat. Id go for an OS Giken if they weren't so expensive.

There expensive because they work. Especially in very high HP car. They are transformative in the Viper on the track.

Having said all that in a Miata or a Mini cooper within 100%+ of the stock level of power a wavetrak is what I would recommend. The Giken and similar as really noisy on the street and just have all round terrible manners anywhere except the track.

In reply to wearymicrobe:

I WOULD get a Clutch type Diff if my car was RWD and of decent power. However I do not want to drop the entire transmission when it comes to rebuilding it. Plus I'd like to keep a smooth transfer of power to the FRONT drive wheels in my application. I don't care about the noise.