Help me decide, oh GRM - Miata or 944?

So, I spent most of the weekend driving around with the wife to look at cars that would make a decent occasional DD and would work for HPDE use as well.

Out of the four I looked at, I pretty much ruled two out straight away, namely the C4 (nice car, didn't like the newer engine in the '95 and I think it's not a good choice for someone with fairly minimal track experience) and a Mk1 MR2 (rust free, but the engine sends smoke signals and it came across as somewhat uncared for, including not record of a timing belt change and the owner telling me the 4AGE had a timing chain). Which leaves me with a choice between two cars:

In ze German corner, we have a '91 944S2 with 150k on the odometer. Originally from Texas, now in Cali, rust free as a result. Not a mint car, but in good shape and very clean. Drives nice, tracks straight, only a very slight hint of clutch judder on changing down into second and very nice clutch action overall. Has had a clutch about 40k ago and supposedly it's got the center spring (turbo?) clutch rather than the rubber center clutch. Current owner is a 944 nut who bought it as a very nice parts car with a supposed blown gearbox, only to find out one of the driveshafts had disconnected itself. The owner just did a timing belt service with tensioer etc and checked the chain and tensioner at the same time. He even put on a new water pump.

Minus points with this car:

• Drivers seat has been recovered in vinyl
• One of the D90 wheels is pretty badly kerbed, but that looks cosmetic
• It probably wants a set of new shock absorbers, but I doubt it needs them right now.
• Windshield will probably want replacing at some point, it's got one or two small stone chips but at the moment an autoglass place might be able to repair it.
• Couple of smaller parts missing, like the spare tire compressor and the luggage cover, but they should be reasonably easy to find on the Bay or Pelican
• There is a whine from the timing belt. This is kinda the big one, according to the owner who is very knowledgeable re 944s they do this when the belt is brand new (it's got about 140 miles on it now) but it'll go quiet once it settles in. What say the font of all knowledge on this?

And at the other end of the axis (sorry, couldn't help it), we have a '96 Miata with about 144k on the clock. It's a little cosmetically challenged (the rear driver's side corner, the passenger door and the nose cone want a visit from the paint fairy, the driver's seat needs recovering (but both the driver and passenger seat are wearing matching neoprene seat covers) and it badly wants a polish. It drives OK (I've had three Miatas already, I kinda have an idea what they feel like) but will probably want the suspension looked at for more serious track use as that appears to be all original. It's got some sensible modifications already (v8roadster braces, Harddog Deuce bar, 15" wheels with sticky-ish 205s) and the owner replaced the whole exhaust with an aftermarket one. Sounds nice, but a little too loud for my liking. Oh, and the car comes with a hardtop.

Issues I found are:

• Very noisy HLAs, and they take quite a while to quieten down
• Looks like it'll need a new clutch slave cylinder
• Windshield has a couple of large stone chips and might need replacing as a result
• Shock absorbers, again, but I noticed Keith's mob has a nice set of entry-level coilovers for the Miata
• Either one of the diff side seals is leaking or one of the CV joints on a driveshaft has given up the ghost. Couldn't quite tell - this was in a parking lot, after all. CV joint boot wouldn't be a big deal, diff seal probably would be as I don't have any idea who to take it to to get this fixed. Worst case, probably the Mazda dealer...
• Supposedly it had a new timing belt a little while ago, but there is no documentation and the current owner doesn't know if the water pump had been changed. Oh, and the coolant level is low...

Driving the Miata felt like an old comfortable slipper, the 944 felt 'right' in a good way but obviously it wasn't "the return of an old friend". I like the additional grunt the S2 provides, though.

Money-wise, the Miata is pretty much 1/2 the price of the 944, which would make the difference between having to borrow some cash for a few months until I can bring over the rest of my money from the UK and just paying for it outright; However I would be comfortable borrowing a couple of grand for the 944.

Specialist-wise, well... There's a place in Reno who would happily work on the S2 and they do race/track prep as well. With the Miata, I can probably do a lot more work myself as I'm more familiar with them, but I have no idea where to take the car in case I need someone to "just fix it" or for the bigger jobs that I don't have the time or tools for. OTOH changing the timing belt on the Miata is something I'd happily try myself, given that it wouldn't end in expensive valve salad compared to the 944 if I got things wrong.

The other reason I have a hard time deciding - well, let's just say the owner of the 944 seems a little more mature and infused with more mechanical sympathy - the owner of the Miata drove it like he stole it and I'm not sure the engine was fully warmed up at that point. Then again, Miatas do tend to be able to take a lot of abuse.

I can pretty much build out this Miata in my head and can probably follow through with the mods, too. The 944 wouldn't get as many mods but probably doesn't need them, and would most likely make a nicer off-track driver.

There is also a slightly dark horse of a track-modded 944S, again from a knowledgeable seller. Trouble is, as part of the track mods the a/c has been removed completely and with that glass house on the car that's a really bad idea out here. It's got a lot of suspension mods that might come in useful though, and is closer to the Miata in price than the S2. Downside is, it's in Salt Lake City, they require a temporary permit for me to move the car after buying it, much like Nevada does. And I can't really get over there during the week in the next couple of months...

So, after all this, what says the peanut gallery?

Miata

hehehehe.... even I can tell you Miata in this case

To be different I say go 944. I am developing a VW porsche brand bias though even though I am looking to buy a miata.

After 2 years of Miata ownership I was sick of the wind in the hair all the time. My local drivers ed events wouldn't allow 'verts even with a roll bar so no Miata for me. I picked up a beat up 944 turbo and have been prepping it for track time - already scheduled my first event for May- so you can guess my vote.

I would pick the miata. I don't know which is better objectively, but I would pick the miata. Unless you want to be able to tell people you race a porsche...

New balance belts are known to whine a bit when new, or if it's got too much tension on it. It shouldn't sound like a supercharger though. For your intended use, I think I would skip the track prepped S2. The Miata is cheaper to buy and run and you know your way around it. Also financially less painful if you wad it up (my criteria for a track car - can you afford to ball it up and walk away?). Maybe the answer is miata.

Speaking from my previous project car endeavors, it's much more satisfying to work on a car you're already familiar with than something new and foreign (metaphorically speaking). I vote Miata. At the end of the day, it'll be more fun and satisfying to own.

my vote is for the 944. you already know miatas and if you really wanted it, you wouldnt be posting on here and you would have already bought it. personally for me though i would go with track prepped s2 , but i also think AC is overrated and i never use it.

Ah, it looks like I didn't quite express myself clearly...

The S2 I viewed yesterday is not track prepared, but just a plain street S2 in pretty nice condition. I've got a ton of photos and some video of the track prepped S (not an S2 but the 2.5L 16V) but I haven't seen it yet and there's considerable time and expense involved in viewing it.

Re the a/c, I live on the edge of the High Desert here in NV and with a car that's got a greenhouse the size of a 944s, you'll want working a/c. Both the Miata and the S2 have supposedly working a/c so that's putting them on the same footing.

Considering the "working on something you're already familiar with", I can see that point. On the other hand it'll probably be the "great, bought a Miata and now I get to fix all the same E36 M3 again" moment, too.

Anybody got an idea how much the insurance differs between the two without me bothering one of the online quotation sites?

In reply to pigeon:

I happen to have talked to the guy how's doing the tech inspection for the SCCA when they run on the local racetrack and he pointed out that the Miata would be legal for PDX (and I think Club Trials) with a hardtop on, but not without. I'll have to check NASA's stance on this as most of the events in NorCal are put up by NASA, not SCCA.

We already have a wind-in-the-hair car, the Corvette. As much as I like convertibles, this wouldn't be a deciding factor.

BoxheadTim wrote: I happen to have talked to the guy how's doing the tech inspection for the SCCA when they run on the local racetrack and he pointed out that the Miata would be legal for PDX (and I think Club Trials) with a hardtop on, but not without. I'll have to check NASA's stance on this as most of the events in NorCal are put up by NASA, not SCCA.

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Can anyone explain this? A pure fiberglass hardtop will not provide ANY rollover protection.

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If the 944 were a Turbo, I would say 44. Since it is "only" an S2, I will shout MIATA DUMMY!

seriously!

In reply to unevolved:

Best explanation I have? It's in the SCCA rules for PDX & Club Trials - in a convertible you either need a roll bar that meets the requirements in the rulebook (which the Harddog Deuce doesn't), or a hardtop. Go figure.

In reply to Maroon92:

Care to explain? Keep in mind that I'm not after Biiiiig Powaaaar here. The S2 has a lot more low-down torque thanks to the 3L engine compared to the turbo, which IIRC still makes do with the 2.5L. It does make more power, especially if you tweak it, but that's not an avenue I'm too interested in pursuing.

Boy did you come to the wrong place for unbiased opinion.

Do you think you'll be looking for more power in the nearish future? If so, the answer is likely (surprise) Miata. It's just soooo easy to add more power in the form of boost. That said, the 944's do take to LS1's.... If it were me, I think I'd take the 944: just to experience another different car than what I've already had.

If I wanted to build a powerful Miata, I would start with the best one I could find, and probably an M edition to boot, to get all the goodies. Not this one. If I get this one, I'll probably fiddle with the suspension, swear at trying to get a couple of racing seats in[1] but generally concentrate on improving as a driver. Maybe - just maybe - add an intake and a header for a slight improvement, and (if I can find one), an ARC chamber, but they aren't exactly what you'd call cheap.

Actually, I tend to value the comments here, simply because we've got people who've got experience with tons of different cars.

If I wanted a really biased opinion I would have asked on Pelican or Miata.Net .

[1] I'll have to look into that, but I'm beginning to think that it's a lot easier to do this in a 944. Although for the sort of money I'd have to pay for two seats in keeping with a 944, I could probably buy a very good and well fitting set for a Miata, too.

Sounds like your heart says P car - almost forgot you had the 911. The S2 will put you out if you decided full on spec 944, but since you've already had a few miatae and wouldn't mind a comfy road car, why not go for the S2? Worst part is parts cost and some bits are a pain to get to - but if you keep it to DIY it wouldn't be too bad. If a shop has to deal with your stuff - the S2 has the potential to bite you pretty hard.

I sold my Miata that munched it's lifters permanently after having a tick that strayed too long for a 944, I think you see where I am going here. Also, depending on the seats that are in it, I happen to know a guy wanting to trade a set of stock Sport seats...

I think the answer here is either the S2, or else keep looking. The track-prepped S sounds like it's already too hard-core for you, and the Miata sounds like a beat to hell car that will eventually nickel and dime you to death fixing all the crap the PO broke or neglected (like mine did!).

I would get the Miata. Probably not the one you took a look at, but Miata over 944 IMO. All consumables will be cheaper in the long run. If you're looking to become a better driver the Miata is one of the best cars to hone your skills with. Keeping your momentum up on track and really focusing on the proper line is what the Miata will teach you.

Want an interesting viewpoint? Call Flyin' Miata and ask for Bill. FM was originally a VW/Audi/Porsche repair shop, and he's got lots of experience with both cars. It's probably worth noting that I haven't ever seen him behind the wheel of a Porsche, and I've known him for 15 years...

Of course everyone's going to chime in here with their personal favourites, so I will too. I'd go for the S2. I haven't found cost of ownership to be bad at all (on an original S anyway). Replacement seats are reasonably cheap if you go for the standard ones, or you can just plunk some cheap "racing" seats in. I've driven some nicely prepared Miatas at autocrosses, and loved them, I'd still rather go for the P-car especially if doing real track days where aerodynamics counts and the tin roof is a safety feature. I wouldn't worry about the 150k mi if it's been well maintained, which it sounds like it has.

BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to Maroon92: Care to explain? Keep in mind that I'm not after Biiiiig Powaaaar here. The S2 has a lot more low-down torque thanks to the 3L engine compared to the turbo, which IIRC still makes do with the 2.5L. It does make more power, especially if you tweak it, but that's not an avenue I'm too interested in pursuing.

My explanation is just as irrational. I don't like S2s as much as turbos. thats it. and I don't like S2s as much as Miatas either. Buy the Miata, be happy. Twin cam bent 4 Porsches tend to have....issues....that are expensive to fix. If the maintenance isn't letter perfect, walk away!

Yeah, Miata

Just not that Miata. Find a better one.