Help Me Figure Out Where to Put My Garage

We have a...unique property:

As you can see, there's lots of buildings here now. But none of them makes for a particularly good garage. Right now, Building 3 is the default garage- it's about 18 x 18 inside, which means that most cars end up sticking out the door when I'm working on them. It can also really only hold one car at a time to be worked on. Also, the ceiling is like 7 foot, so a lift can't be used. Oh, and there's no electricity to it, other than an extension cord sort-of permanently run across the driveway from the house (Building 1)

The run-in adjacent to the "garage" is 16 x 40, dirt floor, shed roof, and in kindof rough shape. But, the whole garage/ run-in structure does have cinder block walls which are in pretty decent condition.

The only other building with "power" (as in, a 200A circuit breaker) is Building 2. That's a 24 x 28 barn converted to living space that we're currently renovating. There's a shop underneath it, with about 6'6" ceilings (notice a pattern here?) that might hold one small car.

Building 4 is a 12 x 24 shed that houses a bunch of car parts and a convertible I don't want to get wet. It has a redneck concrete (that is, crush n run) floor.

And Building 5 is a dilapidated run-in, about 12 x 30, that we keep a bunch of wood and gardening supplies and stuff in. Dirt floor.

WHAT I WANT:

The ideal garage space for me would be something 24 to 28 feet long, 24 to 28 feet wide, with a ceiling that can accommodate a lift, a concrete floor, and all the usual accouterments. Nothing crazy big, but an enclosed space I can heat and cool and fit 2 cars comfortably to work on them.

The problem is: where to put it? We have about 3 acres (bounded by the red lines) and the current garages are old and so grandfathered in, but any new (or substantially updated) structure would have to be set back from the property lines more. And it's already getting pretty crowded. Ideally, the garage would be near to either Building 1 or 2, so running power to it would be easy. To the left of Building 5 one can see a fenced-in area- that's Mrs VCH's garden, and that can't move (already established). Building 2 has a Septic immediately to it's left, so that spot's no good. Building 1's septic is above it, right above the driveway and to the right of Building 3.

There's also a really nice view (we live on a hill) to the left and down, which we don't want to block with a building.

So...where is volvoclearinghouse's garage going to be?

I would take a page from the Grosh and "Refurbish" the entirely of what is at location #3 to be one shop. Is anyone going to notice if it ends up a bit taller when all said and done? The 58'x 16 (or 18') is kinda jinky

That's what I was thinking. Remodel B#3 until it's all new.

Yeah, the B3 "complex" is pretty weird. The "garage" space on the right is 18 x 18, with cinder block walls on the back and both sides. The front (facing down) is a wood facade with barn sliding doors.

The 16 x 40 run-in on the left is 16 feet deep, and shares the back wall with the garage- so it sticks out 2 feet less. it has a very sketchy, rusty metal shed roof, and the front is a bunch of big sliding doors. I'll take actual pictures of it all and post here tonight or tomorrow.

Luckily, I don't need a garage that will house big dually trucks, but I do want it at least deep enough that I can park a full size old 'Murican car inside, shut the door, and be able to work on it.

Also, since there's that internal wall separating the 18 x 18 part from the 16 x 40 part, that effectively limits the garage size. Unless I tore it out.

Luckily, the top side of the garage that's basically on the property line is bordering that access road for my neighbors above my property. And we're on good terms with them.

Here's a shot of the B3 complex with some dimensions. Cinder block walls are denoted by solid grey lines.

I'm thinking re-doing building 5 to be deeper (perhaps to the left) could be a good idea, if it doesn't block the view you want. It's near power and it sounds like it's not doing much right now, and would be less trouble to modify than building 3.

GameboyRMH wrote: I'm thinking re-doing building 5 to be deeper (perhaps to the left) could be a good idea, if it doesn't block the view you want. It's near power and it sounds like it's not doing much right now, and would be less trouble to modify than building 3.

That's not a bad spot, but Building 5 would have to be essentially leveled and start from scratch. It's literally a bunch of poles stuck into the ground with some sheet metal screwed on top for a roof and a bunch of mismatched wood around the perimeter, all painted barn red.

It's about 8 feet tall at its highest point (shed roof) so the replacement garage would be a good 6 feet taller. It's also pretty close to Building 2 right now. And there's a well below it, so it would be hard to shift it away from B2 very much.

Here's some pictures of B3. Pardon all the white crap.

This is the only pic I could find showing B5. It's the red building on the left.

I'd strip the roof off both parts of building 3, and the fronts, and install a new footing that comes out 8' from the right hand end of the garage part and 10' from the left hand end of the run in. One new wall would go across the front of the whole works, with a single 16' door in the existing garage part and a pair of them in the old run in. Re-roof the whole works with one roof, extending the heights in the back to match at whatever height you want.

Internally install an insulated wall from the left hand side of the garage part to the front with a set of double doors in it. Add heat and ac to the 18x26 section and pour a good floor in it, add concrete in the rest as financing allows with the intention of the bigger area eventually becoming the shop.

Honestly, with dirt floors, I'd be building a pole building with most of 3 walls using what is there, then filling in as required mostly so that it could stay where it is.

Edit: I would probably start with asking for the setback variance based on turning the two dilapidated buildings into one new building. Unless the neighbor right there hates you l can't imagine that being a problem. If they said no, then I would get clarification on just how far you can go when repairing the two buildings and go from there.

Also, building 5 being a run in with single pane roof, one answer for it would be to cut in a footing around it and then set the whole thing up on 3-5 courses of blocks. That is an easy way to add height.

Between 1 and 5 or tear down 5 and put it there. Add a lean-to to the new building to store the wood.

Check your local laws, too. A lot of times, as long as one of the original walls is standing, it's a "renovation" for the purposes of the permit, not a new structure. I've ran across building sites where there was one exterior wall piece standing because they were going to build an entire structure around it.

I'd vote for building 3, but it looks like doubling with depth/thickness of it would practically touch your house and cut out your driveway.

In reply to oldopelguy:

That was pretty much my initial plan. I guess I'm having second thoughts due to the set back issue. Still, if the buildings are already there, and dilapidated, is that worse than making them renovated, albeit slightly larger?

In reply to WonkoTheSane:

I measured off from the front of the current garage, and adding 6 or 8 feet to it in depth will still keep the driveway usable. But, you're correct- that is a concern.

Being on a corner lot typically restricts you a lot. I can't imagine them letting you build a new garage anywhere between the house and either street. So you end up having to build somewhere "above and/or to the left" of the house in that photo. I'd say if building new, right behind the house or above that roughly where your cars are parked is your prime new garage building area. The advantage to a new garage is that it's new and it's not going to disrupt your existing covered spaces while under construction.

If it was me, I'd probably be trying to do roughly what oldopelguy suggested. Double the depth of building 3, put in a concrete floor, and finish the insides better. You're probably going to have to tear off the roofs anyway so plan on a few more courses of block to give you the ceiling height you need. The front part - what would now be 36' x 18' could be taller and that could be your "working on cars" bay and then the back - now 32' x 40' - could be your "storing cars and parts" area. Use attic trusses and a 8/12 roof pitch and you end up with a nice storage area up top. Floor the whole attic and put in a staircase all the way at the back of the building or put in the biggest pull down ladder you can find.

The biggest questions for me would be: what condition are the existing foundations and block walls in, and what can you squeeze by the building authorities?

I found that a 22' deep block building (so, around 20' usable inside) was too shallow inside to make a good shop. My current shop is about 25' deep and it's just at the comfort limit. 32' would be perfect - plenty of room for benches and shelves along the back wall and then you can still get all the way around a car parked in there - either to work on it or to get past it for access. More is gravy.

Oh yeah, the driveway. One thing you could do would be to make the front section not quite as deep and the back section deeper. That would preserve more driveway space. But as long as you can get a car past there I would consider it "wide enough." But often times code dictates how far a house has to be from a detached garage. I think 10' is the minimum in many places.

Keep in mind none of this is going to be cheaper than building a new garage. A few concrete block walls aren't that expensive when compared to the rest of the project. But it works with what you've got.

WonkoTheSane wrote: Check your local laws, too. A lot of times, as long as one of the original walls is standing, it's a "renovation" for the purposes of the permit, not a new structure. I've ran across building sites where there was one exterior wall piece standing because they were going to build an entire structure around it. I'd vote for building 3, but it looks like doubling with depth/thickness of it would practically touch your house and cut out your driveway.

Kinda what I was thinking; bring it forward as much as allowed. You are building a shop from scratch anyway you look at it. All depends on how your county plays this game.

Don't discount the value of leaving the end bay as a separate space, I wish I had a "Dirty" zone for fabricating.

I know here I can do pretty much whatever to repair an existing building, and as long as the footprint doesn't change they typically don't even want to go through the permit process. Typically making an existing building up to 50% bigger is also allowed as long as the direction doesn't make the setbacks worse and you get a permit, but once in a while there is a rule against making a non-conforming building bigger. The process for a variance for a new building seems to change every election cycle, but generally making the place look better and keeping the neighbors from complaining gets you 90% of the way.

And I'm in the camp that says leave the one oversized stall too. It's much quicker and easier to heat or cool, and once the depth issue is taken care of it can keep the wood or welding or grinding or painting separate from the rest.

Razing building 5 and starting over seems like a very good plan for your proximity requirements.

If it were me, I'd put it out back here, and just dig the ditch once to run electric.

http://imgur.com/a/VRVT4

NOHOME wrote:

WonkoTheSane wrote: Check your local laws, too. A lot of times, as long as one of the original walls is standing, it's a "renovation" for the purposes of the permit, not a new structure. I've ran across building sites where there was one exterior wall piece standing because they were going to build an entire structure around it. I'd vote for building 3, but it looks like doubling with depth/thickness of it would practically touch your house and cut out your driveway.

Kinda what I was thinking; bring it forward as much as allowed. You are building a shop from scratch anyway you look at it. All depends on how your county plays this game. Don't discount the value of leaving the end bay as a separate space, I wish I had a "Dirty" zone for fabricating.

VCH is looking to get 24x24 -> 28x28 range. Building #3 is between 16-18' deep. So we are talking adding 6-10' of additional depth. Makes it tighter between the house and #3, but not horrible.

I totally agree with the option of keeping the separate bay. And I would definitely add more rows to the walls to increase the height. Or put in a pit in the separate bay.

Another vote for razing and rebuilding #5.

Plus - you could work in a shed storage area off the back (left side in the picture) for Mrs VCH's garden stuff which would have easy access to her plot. Maybe even a greenhouse. (happy wife, happy life and all that stuff...)

I find that having a garage near the house (or attached to it) is a lot nicer than having to march all the way across the yard anytime I park, or need tools for a project in the house, etc. For that reason, and the fact that it should be easy to modify, I'd convert building #3. It would be cheaper and easier to add power to it in an official capacity. It would require little or no addition to, or modification of the driveway. And it's near the house, so you don't have to trudge across an acre of snow to get to/from it.

VCH,

I think the first thing is to find out from your town is the limit to what you can do to building 3 without triggering zoning compliance issues. I think it has the most potential, other than possibly razing #5 and building new there.

If you added 8' of depth to the right portion and 10' to the left, you'd have a 26x40 area for parking/other stuff + 26x18 bay for dirty work/lift. I'd possibly consider either shifting the inner wall 2-4' to the left to give you some more width in the dirty bay, if you need it. That, or add a few feet to the right if there is space between #3 and the septic. Unless 18ft is good for you.

When I went house shopping the first time I was shown a small house with a very interesting floor plan. It had been a two bedroom. They built a porch. Then they covered the porch. Then they put in windows. By that point they had extra kids so they did a little insulating and it became a bedroom. Then they needed a porch, so they built another one off the kitchen, then they put a roof over it.........
I think zoning is the biggest issue. I agree that building 3 is in the right spot. If there was a way you could pour a big slab that kept most of the existing walls and acted as an apron in front of the current structures then you could extend a couple walls, in a door here, a door there, new roof over one section.....give yourself a couple of years and you'd have quite the renovated structure.

NOHOME wrote:

WonkoTheSane wrote: Check your local laws, too. A lot of times, as long as one of the original walls is standing, it's a "renovation" for the purposes of the permit, not a new structure. I've ran across building sites where there was one exterior wall piece standing because they were going to build an entire structure around it. I'd vote for building 3, but it looks like doubling with depth/thickness of it would practically touch your house and cut out your driveway.

Kinda what I was thinking; bring it forward as much as allowed. You are building a shop from scratch anyway you look at it. All depends on how your county plays this game. Don't discount the value of leaving the end bay as a separate space, I wish I had a "Dirty" zone for fabricating.

I was just thinking that as well.. Use #3 as the base, expand to the left and down so that you end up with the left "half" being twice as deep as the right.

And that little room on the right is for dirty ops (welding, grinding, fabbing, etc).

Edit: Apparently I can't do snazzy ascii art here.

Didn't read all but I have a 24 x 28 garage w/ a 9 x 20 shed added on for lawn equipment. It fills up reaaal fast.

Build larger than you think you need. That's all I got.