Help Me Not Be Slow? - Driver Development Thread

TXratti said:

If things are over-crowded then yeah, it doesn't really help. Lemons isn't high on my list, I'm thinking more Champ Car (formerly Chump Car), Lucky Dog, WRL, AER, etc. Even folks like Randy Pobst and Ross Bentley laud these series because of the amount of passing/ being passed you'll do in a race. My National-level stage rally co-driving commitments (on track to win a national championship for our class) and busy day job are making it hard to do any of those events this year, but hopefully I'll have more time in the future.

I think it depends on what kind of skills you're trying to improve.  For race craft, passing, staying fast in traffic, etc, yes, that sort of environment will do much better at it than track days.  For pure driving skills though, I personally find it quite difficult.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

TXratti said:

If things are over-crowded then yeah, it doesn't really help. Lemons isn't high on my list, I'm thinking more Champ Car (formerly Chump Car), Lucky Dog, WRL, AER, etc. Even folks like Randy Pobst and Ross Bentley laud these series because of the amount of passing/ being passed you'll do in a race. My National-level stage rally co-driving commitments (on track to win a national championship for our class) and busy day job are making it hard to do any of those events this year, but hopefully I'll have more time in the future.

I think it depends on what kind of skills you're trying to improve.  For race craft, passing, staying fast in traffic, etc, yes, that sort of environment will do much better at it than track days.  For pure driving skills though, I personally find it quite difficult.

 

I would agree with you there. I, personally have a fair bit to improve, consistency-wise before racecraft would really come into play.

Two things I want to bring up:

First is that if you autocross you're used to go all out on cold tires and that's an advantage when it comes to wheel racing. I usually pass several cars on the starts. Granted they are faster class cars that pass me right back on the next straight but it is fun to pass them and it sometimes gets me a gap that keeps me ahead.

Second if you put down fast enough times race craft isn't so much of an issue is it.

My fastest raw time run from last weekend (still .8 sec off my codriver but he coned, I coned twice on this run ). Camera issues meant that we didn't capture my fastest clean run. ( I may have it on my gopro but it was also having issues). Google upload doesn't work for embedding, but here's a link:

My fastest (but coned) Run

Co-Driver's fastest (but coned) run

Tom1200 said:

Second if you put down fast enough times race craft isn't so much of an issue is it.

In multi-class or endurance racing it absolutely is.

Been a while since some updates, but it's been busy! Getting covid (mild, thankfully) and missing race school, managing to get my WRL license and then being thrust into the deep end at COTA for the WRL season finale. 

I spent a LOT of time on the sim (iRacing) driving the Global MX-5 Cup car which the team recommended and was similar to the E36 BMW I'd be driving, and also purchased Ross Bentley and Peter Krause's Virtual Track Walk video for COTA which was an immense amount of information! 

Getting there and getting in during the first race practice/qualifying session was QUITE the experience, with a 90 car field and the fast cars (TCR Audis, multitude of GT4 Caymans, AMGs, Aston Martins, a NASA NP01 prototype, etc) were VERY fast (we were GP2 class, near the slower end). You get comfortable in traffic very quickly or... you don't. I just focused on hitting my marks and being predictable, and was probably a little too nice to the fast cars in letting them past. Was what I felt like was pretty slow, running 2:52-2:55 laps during practice and knowing that I was losing a lot of time on the entry to T12, through the carousel (T16/17/18) as well as the Esses (T3/4/5).

Race day was intense, mentally. Thankfully I'd been to this event twice before, crewing for the team I was now driving with (Team LMR, Lockton Motorsports), so the function of fueling, driver changes, pit stop rules, etc was familiar. I was still feeling like I was in a pressure cooker, lump in my throat leading up to my stint and almost couldn't think straight. My turn was up, got in the seat and worked the belts, tested the comms and was off. A few turns in, I forgot about being nervous and just drove and kept an eye in my mirrors for the constant stream of fast cars. 

Immediately I was much quicker than on practice day, running 2:47-2:48 laps right out of the box! Amazing what sleeping on something can do, and getting in with the engine and tires nice and warm. I had a better handle on the car as well, and worked my way up in the braking zone in turn 12 off the main straight. With no ABS, managing lockups was key and hard to do with flatspots already in the tires. After the race, one of the other drivers took a sharpie and wrote each driver's name on a different flatspot on the tire hahaha.

~3/4 through my stint I could feel my focus waning, I was tired mentally. The week leading up to the race I did not sleep well unfortunately, and was too excited in the days immediately before. I kept needing to bring my focus back in line, but managed it fairly well until the team called me into the pits for thenext driver change. On that lap, I had a decent line through the Esses, finally nailed T11 and T12, and had a 2:44 on the AIM dash predictive! I asked for one more lap but begrudgingly pitted as I was told for the last guy to get in. 

When not driving, I was usually on the radio speaking to both drivers and managing time and fuel stops. On Sunday we brought the lead car (in GP1) to a 2nd place finish! We had a nice splash and dash under yellow and the first driver ran a monster 3hr 30 min stint.

All in all an amazing experience, and I'm happy with my own development over the weekend. Some definite rookie mistakes, and all out INTENSE. My first W2W race, and I hope to do more next year. We filmed the whole race, and I will have access to data from the other drivers. I hope to review and compare and see what I can do next time around to be more consistent and perhaps find a bit of speed!

Awesome and congrats.

Never stop chipping away at it, after 30+ years I still get in the car and focus on hitting my marks & what I can do better. A friend who's now 70 and racing since he was a kid once told me if you stop thinking about improving it's time to stop.

Double yes on devouring the data from the other drivers; that's a huge help to have.

Also, always make sure you're having fun.

Tom1200 said:

Awesome and congrats.

Never stop chipping away at it, after 30+ years I still get in the car and focus on hitting my marks & what I can do better. A friend who's now 70 and racing since he was a kid once told me if you stop thinking about improving it's time to stop.

Double yes on devouring the data from the other drivers; that's a huge help to have.

Also, always make sure you're having fun.

Thank you! Yes, I had so much fun. Unfortunately we got punted into the wall in T19 2hrs from the end of the race and I didn't get to drive on Sunday but was still so so much fun. I did have a minor boop with a miata at one point, with a rookie mistake. New situation, and locked up on turn in (this car did NOT like trail braking), and ran it wide a bit.

I'm definitely interested to dig into the data, one of the other guys had been running TT for a while and this was his first W2W race, but he was incredibly fast; running 2:42-2:43's during the race. I was just happy to be on pace with other drivers with a decent amount of experience. 

As you know I am a huge advocate of trail braking but not every driver and car likes it so kudos to you for figuring it out and adapting.

Drive everything you can get your hands on (not that I need to tell you this) ebing adaptable is a huge bonus as a driver.

Tom1200 said:

As you know I am a huge advocate of trail braking but not every driver and car likes it so kudos to you for figuring it out and adapting.

Drive everything you can get your hands on (not that I need to tell you this) ebing adaptable is a huge bonus as a driver.

I love the feeling when you get a good trail brake and the car rotates nicely into the corner, but if you turned in with more than about 15% pedal pressure in this car (#105) it would lock the inside front wheel up immediately. Definitely had to get it all slowed in a straight line and then turn with this one. You could HAMMER the brakes from speed though, I definitely left a ton on the table on the brakes because of braking earlier/not as hard.

There was some interesting discussion in the team, as the other team car, the #151 (GP1 car that I didn't drive) had ABS, but you had to drive it totally differently! Two of the drivers drove both cars over the weekend. With the 151 you had to sort of ramp into max pedal pressure because the ABS (2-channel, stock E36 system) would go into ice mode if you really got on it hard from speed, but you could take it all the way to the apex with the trail brake, as opposed to the previously mentioned characteristics of the #105

Seat time, Seat time, Seat time.

I'm headed back to ECR this weekend, and hoping to make some progression from my first visit. Some changes to the car include Falken RT660 Tires (previously RT615K+), more aggressive alignment, brake fluid flush and bleed, and different front brake pads (GLoc R12 vs Cobalt XR2).

And more experience, both with the car (had never driven it in anger before the first track day), and myself (autocrosses, WRL race, and Racers360 coaching from the first time out), I'm hoping to make some improvements!

TXratti said:

Seat time, Seat time, Seat time.

I'm headed back to ECR this weekend, and hoping to make some progression from my first visit. Some changes to the car include Falken RT660 Tires (previously RT615K+), more aggressive alignment, brake fluid flush and bleed, and different front brake pads (GLoc R12 vs Cobalt XR2).

And more experience, both with the car (had never driven it in anger before the first track day), and myself (autocrosses, WRL race, and Racers360 coaching from the first time out), I'm hoping to make some improvements!

Late to the updates but ECR round 2 last December went well! I forget what my fastest time was but it was definitely above 2:30.

I didn't capture any video from that run, if I remember correctly it was quick between sessions and I didn't bother with the camera. Heres the speed trace with time delta to another quick lap:

It looks like I had to slow for something going on to the front straight for the referenced lap (the slightly grayed out line). It felt better being out there than before but still need more time.

Now all you need to do is figure out how to combine the best bits from both laps..............sounds so simply doesn't it.

In reply to TXratti :

Try to keep your car identical from one year to the next.  That will show if you're improving or your car is. 
    Then compare lap times and overall times.  My first year racing I was 10 seconds a lap slower than my second year.  10 second!   
     Once a lap started to feel slow to me I knew I wasn't progressing any more, even though my lap times might be fractionally faster. That meant I was anticipating rather than reacting.   Now the trying of various lines, breaking points etc. could really reward me. I had someone run a pair stop watch's and thumbs up or down if I was slower or faster that lap.  That way I could isolate what was different. Was I slowed by someone or get a draft.  Did I have a good lap and try a different line or braking point? 
I had my own signals 2 fingers meant a draft, fist meant blocked, 1 finder was line spread fingers was braking point etc. p

frenchyd said:

In reply to TXratti :

Try to keep your car identical from one year to the next.  That will show if you're improving or your car is. 
    Then compare lap times and overall times.  My first year racing I was 10 seconds a lap slower than my second year.  10 second!   
     Once a lap started to feel slow to me I knew I wasn't progressing any more, even though my lap times might be fractionally faster. That meant I was anticipating rather than reacting.   Now the trying of various lines, breaking points etc. could really reward me. I had someone run a pair stop watch's and thumbs up or down if I was slower or faster that lap.  That way I could isolate what was different. Was I slowed by someone or get a draft.  Did I have a good lap and try a different line or braking point? 
I had my own signals 2 fingers meant a draft, fist meant blocked, 1 finder was line spread fingers was braking point etc. p

I'm not sure I need to know if it's the driver or the car at this point (or at least how much), and I could be driving a different car depending on the event. For experience and flexibility, I like driving a lot of different cars if I can!

Knowing if it was traffic that held me up,  a draft, etc is exactly why I run cameras and data in the car. I've started using hand signals for things like "move braking earlier" but I'm sure there are things I could expand on there.