Help me pick a manual transmission for my swap

3000lbs car

300ft*lbs

25"-30" from bellhousing to shifter

I am to the point in my swap where I need to get a transmission so I can start fabbing engine/trans mounts. This is a weekend cruiser and hopefully making a return to endurance racing. I would like to stick with an off-the-shelf transmission adapter. I am hoping to pick a transmission ubiquitous enough that I can get a replacement without too much searching. Here are a list of possible donor engines/transmissions that I can adapt from and seem robust enough

Ford 4.0

Chevy Smallblock (pre or post 86)

Toyota 3vz/5vz

Toyota 22RE

Toyota 2TR/2RZ/3RZ

Jeep 4.0

Jeep 3.8

Nissan KA

Nissan VG30/VG33

Ford 4.0 gives me the option of an S197 T5 which I know is strong enough and about the right size, but it's got an internal slave which worries me a little. Chevy smallblock gives me a T5 from a 3rd gen Camaro and T5 from an S10. Toyota 2TR gives me the option of the R150. The Jeep transmissions can be sturdy but appear to place the shifter up under my dashboard too far and the 3.8's transmission has weird ratios. Nissan KA transmissions are lovely but are getting harder to find in good condition. Nissan VG30/VG33 transmissions are lovely to drive but also seem a bit thinner on the ground.

What sayeth the hive?

Is the non-internal slave of the T5 bellhousing mounted? If so, a bellhousing swap fixes that. What issues have you seen with the internal slave?

The internal slaves (HTOB) will, like anything else, eventually fail and servicing them means engine out.

The T5s came both ways. I used a bellhousing from an F body on my MG conversion and fabbed up an adaptor to mount a Girling TR6 slave externally. If and when my slave kacks on me, it is a half hour job rather that several days.  Uses the Firebird/Camaro release lever as well.

I like internal slaves because they work smoother than external, and you never have to worry about breaking a pivot ball or clutch fork, which I seem to have happen with regularity.

I wonder how adaptable a Tremec TR3160 would be.  Came in 4 and 6 cyl 6th Gen Camaros and GT350’s around that same time.

Probably still a little too new to be cost effective for low-buck endurance racing though.

What engine is it going behind? 

I specifically am going for transmissions with available adapters. I want everything to be off the shelf for parts replacement and fitment reasons.

I really like the idea of the T5 from a 4.0 but I'm only worried about the HTOB from a service standpoint. I've never worked with one.

Also I have to be sure the 90-97 Ranger Cologne has the same bellhousing pattern as the 05-10 Mustang Cologne. Theoretically I just need the earlier 6 bolt flywheel, clutch and PP.

yupididit said:

What engine is it going behind? 

VW BHW 2.0 TDI.

I would play around on team M factory's gear ratio calculator. On the one hand TDIs make a ton of torque down low, but they're also very rev limited, so having gear ratios that are far from optimal for them could be a nightmare. 

That's the 4.0 T5 ratios. Looks pretty good to me. The torque peak and usable revs of the TDI is very similar to the factory OM from this car.

If I was rich enough to build a V8 Miata or a Cobra kit or LS swap a 2nd gen F body, I'd be getting the new Tremec TKK.  

The Aisin AR-5 (aka GM MA5) will bolt up to a great many different bellhousing options, thanks to a trans-to-bell bolt pattern shared with the venerable Toyota R154 as well as the AX-15 found in Jeeps.

newrider3 said:

The Aisin AR-5 (aka GM MA5) will bolt up to a great many different bellhousing options, thanks to a trans-to-bell bolt pattern shared with the venerable Toyota R154 as well as the AX-15 found in Jeeps.

The guys I know of who are successfully endurance racing with the AR5 are using an external pump and cooler setup to keep it alive. Otherwise the 3rd gear synchro seems to live a very short life.

In reply to buzzboy :

I'd get something favoring strong over RPM friendliness.  I bet that the torque impulses from a Diesel 4 cylinder would shred a T5 or its derivatives unless you had a really heavy flywheel, preferably dual mass.  Note that only the T5s with a 2.95/3.15 First gear were rated to 300ft-lb, the 4.0 and 3.5 First transmissions were rated much lower, like 195 or so.  This is all due to the transfer gear ratio from the input shaft to the countershaft.  I am unfamiliar with what the 4.0 Mustang transmissions were rated at.  Also, are you adapting to the bellhousing bolt pattern or the transmission bolt pattern?  Along the way, the T5/derivatives lost the replaceable bellhousing in favor of a unitized transmission case.

At the same time, you really don't have to worry about shift quality at 7000rpm

If it were about ten-twenty years ago, I'd suggest an RX-7 Turbo II transmission, which is also sort of available as a JDM RX-8 5 speed unit.  Not sure if the RX-8 unit is as strong because they made the gears narrower to make room for triple cone synchros, but even with that they are probably still stronger than a T5.

Do you need overdrive?

Super T10

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

The 4.0 T5 is supposedly a WC transmission using the 3.35 first gear. That's a 3300lbs car making 240ft*lbs.

In reply to Appleseed:

I guess I don't "need" overdrive in a racecar/cruiser. Hadn't thought of the likes of a T10. Not sure what they're like to find used and in good condition. Hydraulic clutch?

I was going to say look into bmw transmissions from E36/e46

In reply to buzzboy :

WC just means it has a different style of bearing for reduced friction and IIRC a better synchronizer type, it doesn't mean much for strength.  That is all down to the gear ratios and gear width.

OTOH if you can get the transmissions in the $250 range, it's worth a shot to try, no?   As long as they don't cause DNFs, worst case if you have to replace the trans after every race, you're still money ahead.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

The ZF320 is my favorite transmission but no available adapters to the VW and I'm sticking hard to off-the-shelf parts for this.

In reply to buzzboy :

Have ten made and sell eight or nine to cover the design and setup costs?

In reply to buzzboy :

Well all of those you've listed are basically 4 speed  transmissions with over drive.   For the race track you will never get into overdrive.

      A street car on the race track quickly turns into a race car which is horrible on the street or a street car which is slow on the race track. 
      We've all done it. Myself included.  

T5 from a 1998 to 2002 camaro v6 has a gm input and output shaft, but has the Ford style bell housing pattern on the trans side.

Not sure if that helps, but it might make mix and matching easier.

The actual engine bolt pattern is the gm 60 degree pattern.

Coincidentally, one of the jeep ax boxes mentioned above might also have the same gm 60 degree engine bolt patterns. 

If the adapter works with that trans, it might work with this t5 trans as well.

It does have an internal throw out bearing (which I much prefer).

P.s. my track car uses 4th and 5th gear exclusively (overdrive 5th)

buzzboy said:

 

Also I have to be sure the 90-97 Ranger Cologne has the same bellhousing pattern as the 05-10 Mustang Cologne. Theoretically I just need the earlier 6 bolt flywheel, clutch and PP.

If the '05-10 mustang ran the same SOHC 4.0 as the ranger/explorer then yes it is the same pattern as the older OHV cologne V6's.  Flywheel is specific as I believe the SOHC uses an 8 bolt crank whereas the OHV used a 6 bolt.

As someone who accidentally installed a gas 2.0 transmission on a 1.9tdi once all I'm going to say is that tdi motors thrive on long gears. The short 1-3 gears in the gas transmission were all but useless and 5th gear meant you could do no more than 55mph on the highway. 

In reply to mjlogan :

I have confirmed that it works, but you need the older flywheel/clutch/pp.

In reply to 1SlowVW :

They do like long gears. My car has a 3.07 differential which helps. I see it being a 3-4 shift on track with pretty much any transmission. Heck, it's geared well to do most tracks in just 4th gauging off the graph I have further up the page.

My input is that I hate synchromesh and would recommend a dog box, but that's big-time money, so feel free to ignore me.