Somewhere I read that they had to take the "near Empty" Teslas to a Supercharger and that took a worker for each car to sit there while it charged ,
Its a bitch being an industry leader , Hopefully Hertz comes out OK , because in the long run they are going to need 50% plus EVs in the fleet.
Here's another factor about infrastructure at an airport...
There is absolutely no such thing as grassroots construction methods at an airport. The typical cost per SF is 10-20 times the cost of residential work. And that's assuming there are no Homeland Security concerns or sequencing issues that impact the cost.
A commercial networked 150kW DC fast charger can cost about $75,000. A 350kW can be twice that. In an airport environment, those costs could increase by 2-5 times. How many units would Hertz need to charge their cars? 10? 20? Don't forget to upgrade the electric service entrance.
Now do it for every airport you intend to do business in.
Its a massive undertaking. At this point, it's much easier to Hertz to admit now is not the time for renting electric cars. It's certainly not worth $20 worth of profit for fuel charges.
SV reX said:In reply to Tom Suddard :
Right. But earning that $20 is gonna cost them serious money to upgrade their infrastructure and add enough fast chargers to keep their fleet moving through their check-in process in a timely manner.
Even with that, there's the flip time of a car that has to be included. A returned car should be able to get back into the fleet really quickly. So the rental company will need multiple high speed chargers to keep up with a decent sized fleet of EVs so that they can be returned to service.
So they rely on the renter to do that part. Which I would hate, as we fill our rental cars up within a few miles of the airport on our way to the flight out. Adding more than a few min to that travel is a real inconvenience when you have early flights. Then the consumer is forced to find places to stay that have chargers in place- limiting options.
The only thing that would work is if the rental companies made ties with hotels that had chargers to have travel deals.
In reply to alfadriver :
I agree completely.
SV reX said:It also wouldn't surprise me if they have more accidents with Teslas than other cars. Every single person who rents them is unfamiliar with the controls and has to go through a learning curve. That equates to distractions while driving.
And they've got massive acceleration - who's not going to exploit that as much as possible? I'd love to see a breakdown of the sort of accidents they had.
Toyman! said:I'm curious if the repair costs are from damage or maintenance.
Some of the quotes that I've read have mentioned lengthy downtime for the Teslas, which can be a killer for a business. Not only due to charging, but while waiting to be repaired. I'd bet that they're including idle time due to damage in the accounting for repair costs. Tesla's are notorious for taking a very long time to get parts. If an ICE car gets a side mirror knocked off, it might be back and making the business money again in a couple of days. If that happens in a Tesla, it might be out of service for a couple of weeks.
NY Nick said:I looked the cheapest ones they are selling now have ~80k miles and are ~$22k.
They'll likely be elligible for the used EV tax credit though right? And that's now applied at the point of sale rather than year end taxes. So, they're listed at $22k, but in reality the customers will likely only pay $18k.
SV reX said:In reply to alfadriver :
I agree completely.
You basically hit return on a second reply before I did, lol...
In reply to californiamilleghia :
I don't know about them needing 50% EVs any time soon.
Currently, EVs make up 11% of the fleet and they are saying they have too many of them. They are reducing that number by 1/3.
They had planned to be 25% EVs by the end of this year but they are instead reducing their EV fleet.
I did find some info that the repair costs are due to damage instead of maintenance. EVs are cheaper in maintenance but the repair costs and depreciation are more than offsetting those savings.
STM317 said:NY Nick said:I looked the cheapest ones they are selling now have ~80k miles and are ~$22k.
They'll likely be elligible for the used EV tax credit though right? And that's now applied at the point of sale rather than year end taxes. So, they're listed at $22k, but in reality the customers will likely only pay $18k.
Only if the buyer qualifies- https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit
And there are some qualifiers for the car.
Neither are a massive hurdle, but it's not for everyone.
californiamilleghia said:Somewhere I read that they had to take the "near Empty" Teslas to a Supercharger and that took a worker for each car to sit there while it charged ,
Its a bitch being an industry leader , Hopefully Hertz comes out OK , because in the long run they are going to need 50% plus EVs in the fleet.
Remember, EV isn't just BEV, it's any *EV. PHEV, HEV, MHEV are all EV's along with BEVs. For rentals- hybrids are an attractive option, since they don't need much infrastructure and the turn around is the same as ICEs. And if you can have a little time to plug in, bonus.
On a related note to a lot of the earlier conversation I had a rental EV a few months ago from Avis. It was a e-Kona or Kona E, whatever. I am a gear head, I love change, and new things, and I am familiar with the city I was in. I was excited to try an electric car but also scared as hell. I don't know anything about the infrastructure of charging so it was concerning, it wasn't clear to me if I had to bring it back charged (I didn't have to). I took it anyway and figured I would figure it out but I can see that as an impediment for many people.
alfadriver said:californiamilleghia said:Somewhere I read that they had to take the "near Empty" Teslas to a Supercharger and that took a worker for each car to sit there while it charged ,
Its a bitch being an industry leader , Hopefully Hertz comes out OK , because in the long run they are going to need 50% plus EVs in the fleet.
Remember, EV isn't just BEV, it's any *EV. PHEV, HEV, MHEV are all EV's along with BEVs. For rentals- hybrids are an attractive option, since they don't need much infrastructure and the turn around is the same as ICEs. And if you can have a little time to plug in, bonus.
That's true, except Hertz bought Teslas.
In reply to SV reX :
He was pointing out the upcoming rules that require a much higher percentage of "EVs" to be sold. So 50% of Hertz fleet won't have to be BEV's like Teslas, but a mix of everything.
In reply to SV reX :
They bought mostly Teslas, but not exclusively.
My wife's brother was in town recently and the rental company wanted to rent him an EV. He does not own an EV, has no knowledge as to how / where to charge them (E.g. does not have whatever Apps you need). He obviously turned it down. Clearly not what he needed. They ended up driving some decent distances and an EV likely would have been a bit of a nightmare for them. They ended up with a 4-door Jeep, which was almost as unnecessary (in SoCal) but still was more appropriate. Clearly they were trying to push the EV, likely for the reasons stated above.
If you only need the car for short trips, for a short time period, and you can return it discharged, I could see it being an option. Or if you are already well up on the needed EV knowledge of course.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to SV reX :
They bought mostly Teslas, but not exclusively.
I saw these getting delivered to Hertz in October of last year:
SEADave said: Who has time on a business or even personal trip to track down a charging station
Well, to be fair, for a Tesla it's not hard. The car tracks them down for you and routes you to the nearest one. And unlike other EVs, charging at a Tesla Supercharger with a Tesla is a real simple thing.
The issue is, as many have said, the leaning curve of a car you've never been in is amplified by a car that has pretty much ALL its controls done through menus on the center screen. Ad to that trying to navigate the menus to the part that tells you where a supercharger is can be intimidating.
californiamilleghia said:Somewhere I read that they had to take the "near Empty" Teslas to a Supercharger and that took a worker for each car to sit there while it charged ,
Its a bitch being an industry leader , Hopefully Hertz comes out OK , because in the long run they are going to need 50% plus EVs in the fleet.
My local Budget has had a few and tried to get us to rent one when we chose the "suppliers choice" option when renting. It had to come back fully charged, there wasn't a converter to charge it on regular 110v (in case I couldn't find a high speed charger). I asked if we could pay to bring it back uncharged and he said no. He's a small business and any EV that came back not full, he had to have an employee head over to WalMart to charge it. He said the WM chargers weren't very reliable and it would often be hours for it to fully charge. Wife was using the car to go to a rural part of South Texas, so there would be no easy way for her to charge the car. We passed and got a cheap ICE car.
I really wanted to rent one and try it around town, but haven't had the need to spend the $$ to just test it.
-Rob
dps214 said:Also I'm not a rental expert, but I thought rental fleets usually get turned over well before 80k miles? I'm a little surprised they kept all of those teslas so long in the first place.
It probably varies by company but my last few rentals were older and higher mileage than I expected. We got a Sentra in San Diego last year that hit 115k when we returned it.
SV reX said:About a year and a half ago I got a great deal on a rental from Hertz renting a Tesla at Newark airport. They had just started their partnership with Tesla and were offering great deals for people to try them. It was cheaper than the economy cars, and they said there was no fuel charge if I brought it back with at least 10% charge remaining. Sweet!
Fast forward to about 2 months ago. I was at the same airport wanting to rent the same car. They were now the most expensive rentals available, and they required them to be returned with a full charge. (That's not easy to do with a rental in central NJ). They had about 30 on the lot, and NONE of them had any charge in them. I ended up switching to gas.
I spent a little time talking with the lot manager about them. They found the charging time to be impossible to manage in a rental fleet. The cars had to sit still for so long charging that it messed up their entire queue.
I don't think EVs make great rental cars.
I've rented EVs the last three trips to Chicago, and will rent them exclusively every time if they are available.
Tom Suddard said:I read some coverage saying that hertz didn't have fast chargers--or in many cases ANY chargers--at most locations. They basically took EVs killer app (it refuels while parked) and negated it.
This makes a lot of sense.
Infrastructure is the EV Achilles heel........I am not suprised at all at this turn of events.
I also expects the mandates will start to be revised in the next 5 years.
Chris_V said:SEADave said: Who has time on a business or even personal trip to track down a charging stationWell, to be fair, for a Tesla it's not hard. The car tracks them down for you and routes you to the nearest one. And unlike other EVs, charging at a Tesla Supercharger with a Tesla is a real simple thing.
The issue is, as many have said, the leaning curve of a car you've never been in is amplified by a car that has pretty much ALL its controls done through menus on the center screen. Ad to that trying to navigate the menus to the part that tells you where a supercharger is can be intimidating.
I don't think it's so much a matter of navigating the screen - that's just a big iPad conceptually - as the sheer alien aspect of how the "key" and the gearshift work. Just getting the car to the point where it will move under its own power requires some instruction.
Tesla has some videos on how to operate their cars. An edited down 2-minute video on the controls that autoplays when a new renter enters would go a long way. Basically, the cars need a "rental mode".
Keith Tanner said:Tesla has some videos on how to operate their cars. An edited down 2-minute video on the controls that autoplays when a new renter enters would go a long way. Basically, the cars need a "rental mode".
Hear me out:
Every car needs a rental mode.
Sure, the gearshift or turn signal may not be alien, but holy berkeley using a radio/touchsceen/nav/hvac system you havent used before can be such a nightmare.
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