My elderly dad's considering a Buick Envision for his next vehicle so I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on the naturally aspirated, 2.5L LCV Ecotec engine. Did GM finally correct the timing chain issues that they were having with the 2.4L (and other Ecotecs) in this engine? Any other "gotchas" in this engine, like the timing cover PCV idiocy of the 1.4L?
They're pretty bulletproof. Not exactly powerful or smooth or refined (better than a 2.$L) but they seem to be built pretty tough. I have yet to see a timing chain issue on them, and they are headed for 8 years old. The only major issue we see is the secondary air injection ports in the head get clogged up and set a P0411 Secondary Air - Incorrect Flow. The fix is to pull the exahust manifold, knock a couple of soft plugs out of the head and fish wire through the ports to clean them out. Other than that, though, they're pretty solid.
Nope. Have done chains on them already.
With a timing chain engine, you're buying the PO's maintenance habits.
In reply to Knurled. :
I assumed he's buying new, in which case, there is no previous owner.
In reply to NickD :
Ah yes, in that case, go for it. But change the oil before 30% oil life remaining, and don't train it to run a quart and a half low...
I probably should have asked before I bought one but what timing chain issues do the 2,4s have? I'm a little over 200k miles and everything seems fine.
In reply to Wally :
If you made it that far, you'll be fine.
When you run them low on oil the chain can slap the guides apart. Have seen a few that broke the upper boss for the stationary guide off the head, some that just shear the bolt.
Wally said:I probably should have asked before I bought one but what timing chain issues do the 2,4s have? I'm a little over 200k miles and everything seems fine.
As long as you check your oil and keep realistic oil change intervals you should be fine. The problem is that first of all, GM's 7-8k mile OCI is way too long. Secondly, the 2.4L has an issue with coking up the piston rings and burning oil at alarming rates. They use oil pressure to apply the timing chain tensioners. When you start letting them run low on oil because you are waiting too long to change it (1 quart in 2k miles is considered normal) and then it's burning oil at an even faster rate, they can't maintain the tension on the chain guides, the chains start flailing around the chaincase and stretch and knock the top guide off. Then they start chainsawing through guides and the guide bolts in the head and casting bosses and start getting out of time and stumbling and stalling and running poorly and before you know it, you have a bunch of aluminum shavings in the pan, a bunch of bent valves and broken cam followers and a junk engine.
FooBag said:My elderly dad's considering a Buick Envision for his next vehicle
The Chinese Buick? The first Chinese-built GM vehicle to be sold in America?
I'd consider anything else than a Buick Envision.
Thanks for the input guys!
John Welsh said:FooBag said:My elderly dad's considering a Buick Envision for his next vehicle
The Chinese Buick? The first Chinese-built GM vehicle to be sold in America.
I'd consider anything else than a Buick Envision.
My dad has a very specific list of what he's looking for in his next vehicle, including size, seating height/position, and comfort of ride. I could share all the details of this list, but I don't want to bore you all. He's spent the last year test driving every mid-size crossover looking for his glass slipper, and keeps ending up back at the Envision. Having retired as a UAW member, the Chinese build of the Envision really bothers my dad, but he cannot find anything else that hits his requirements.
In reply to FooBag :
My 81 yr old M-I-L had similar requirements. Her choice ended up being a 2018 Ford Escape. Now available too is the twin Lincoln MKC renamed Corsair.
NickD said:The problem is that first of all, GM's 7-8k mile OCI is way too long.
That's kinda sad...I can't remember the last reasonably modern appliance engine I owned that couldn't easily meet or exceed that OCI with oil life to spare.
In reply to Driven5 :
I can't think of one that does tolerate that. Certainly nothing with direct injection will like it!
I tend to be of the 3k mile OCI mindset. It may cost a little extra money, but you can't hurt an engine by changing the oil too often.
Knurled. said:In reply to Driven5 :
I can't think of one that does tolerate that. Certainly nothing with direct injection will like it!
are we talking GM or all DI's? The wife's Forte seems happy at about 7500-8k OCI's.
NickD said:Secondly, the 2.4L has an issue with coking up the piston rings and burning oil at alarming rates. They use oil pressure to apply the timing chain tensioners. When you start letting them run low on oil because you are waiting too long to change it (1 quart in 2k miles is considered normal) and then it's burning oil at an even faster rate, they can't maintain the tension on the chain guides, the chains start flailing around the chaincase and
You could replace 2.4L with 1.9L Saturn and this paragraph would still be 100% accurate. Good to know they didn't learn any lessons there.
I imagine, just like a 1.9L Saturn, if you simply change the oil at some reasonable interval, it will run forever.
ProDarwin said:NickD said:Secondly, the 2.4L has an issue with coking up the piston rings and burning oil at alarming rates. They use oil pressure to apply the timing chain tensioners. When you start letting them run low on oil because you are waiting too long to change it (1 quart in 2k miles is considered normal) and then it's burning oil at an even faster rate, they can't maintain the tension on the chain guides, the chains start flailing around the chaincase and
You could replace 2.4L with 1.9L Saturn and this paragraph would still be 100% accurate. Good to know they didn't learn any lessons there.
I imagine, just like a 1.9L Saturn, if you simply change the oil at some reasonable interval, it will run forever.
not much different for the K24's from Honda. Oil starvation and extended oci's were hell on tensioners in those first gen TSX's.
I've been doing them every 4-5000 with Mobil 1 and have just started using a bit of oil, about 1/2 a quart every oil change.
bobzilla said:Knurled. said:In reply to Driven5 :
I can't think of one that does tolerate that. Certainly nothing with direct injection will like it!
are we talking GM or all DI's? The wife's Forte seems happy at about 7500-8k OCI's.
All DIs. A common theme for all manufacturers is cam lobe wear on DI cars if you stretch out the oil changes. They're stressing the materials the way flat tappet pushrod engines do.
I wonder if specific output plays a role, as the wear would be accelerated by high pressure demands and that would come from needing to cover lots of low RPM boost. Hmm...
bobzilla said:ProDarwin said:NickD said:Secondly, the 2.4L has an issue with coking up the piston rings and burning oil at alarming rates. They use oil pressure to apply the timing chain tensioners. When you start letting them run low on oil because you are waiting too long to change it (1 quart in 2k miles is considered normal) and then it's burning oil at an even faster rate, they can't maintain the tension on the chain guides, the chains start flailing around the chaincase and
You could replace 2.4L with 1.9L Saturn and this paragraph would still be 100% accurate. Good to know they didn't learn any lessons there.
I imagine, just like a 1.9L Saturn, if you simply change the oil at some reasonable interval, it will run forever.
not much different for the K24's from Honda. Oil starvation and extended oci's were hell on tensioners in those first gen TSX's.
The "Earth Dreams" K24s are still having VCT issues, and when those go, the locking pin fails to engage, causing them to rattle against their stops on a cold start. Because this happens before there is oil pressure in the tensioner, they can beat the chain to go off time.
Wally said:I've been doing them every 4-5000 with Mobil 1 and have just started using a bit of oil, about 1/2 a quart every oil change.
Ah, you're good then. As long as you aren't pulling the filter out and the media is all collapsed in on itself and shriveled up. That's when you know you are going too long. And we see that a lot. Even once they start burning oil, you are okay as long as you keep the oil topped up. But you see them burning a half quart every 1000 miles, and the customer isn't checking the oil level and going by GM's 7000 mile recommendation, so they come in with a quart and a half of oil in the pan.
with oil life to spare.
Well, 'with oil life left' and 'with oil left in it' are different things and one might be more of a problem than the other. I've had a couple oil burners that rarely got oil changes because the oil in them was always 'fresh' 
NickD said:Wally said:I've been doing them every 4-5000 with Mobil 1 and have just started using a bit of oil, about 1/2 a quart every oil change.
Ah, you're good then. As long as you aren't pulling the filter out and the media is all collapsed in on itself and shriveled up. That's when you know you are going too long. And we see that a lot. Even once they start burning oil, you are okay as long as you keep the oil topped up. But you see them burning a half quart every 1000 miles, and the customer isn't checking the oil level and going by GM's 7000 mile recommendation, so they come in with a quart and a half of oil in the pan.
We saw this all the time with manual TSX's. 7500 mile oci's burning a quart every 1000 miles and a 4.5 quart sump. Not uncommon to pull the drain plug and have less than a quart come out.
In reply to bobzilla :
I did have a '15 Accord today with 11k on its oil and filter, that somehow was still full. I was impressed. Being under 40k probably helped a lot.
NickD said:They're pretty bulletproof. Not exactly powerful or smooth or refined (better than a 2.$L) but they seem to be built pretty tough. I have yet to see a timing chain issue on them, and they are headed for 8 years old. The only major issue we see is the secondary air injection ports in the head get clogged up and set a P0411 Secondary Air - Incorrect Flow. The fix is to pull the exahust manifold, knock a couple of soft plugs out of the head and fish wire through the ports to clean them out. Other than that, though, they're pretty solid.
NickD,
Is the 2.5 LCV engine the same bell pattern housings as the 2.4 LEA?
I have to change the engine on my 2015 Equinox,the engine is a 2.4 LEA. Equinox is AWD.
Located a 2.5 LCV from a 2020 Buick Envision with less than 6,000 miles on the engine. The Envision is FWD.
From what I have read online the 2.5 is much better. Trying to figure out if I could swap without too much modification.
Any advice or comment?
Thank you
Joseph~
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