How hard ( expensive) would it be to cast a new block?

GameboyRMH said:

I have an idea on how to get some produced with no initial expenditure, although I don't know at what final cost:

Make a CAD file of the block, upload it to Alibaba's manufacturer section with a full description of exactly what it is and how much they're worth, say you're interested in getting some produced, talk with any companies that ask questions but don't actually go ahead with it. Wait a few months and see how much the replacement blocks that will be available on there are going for 

I hadn't thought of that at all.  That's really great.  He could even set up a  side business. There is plenty of demand.  

frenchyd said:

Asphalt_Gundam said:

Pretty much any Foundry won't touch it unless it's their designed mold, etc. Then you have the fact that unless you're getting A LOT of them, they don't want the job. I couldn't even find a foundry that would use a proven mold I already had and do a small production run for valve covers.....

The Cheapest (and fastest) DIY way would be: Buy a 5 axis CNC, Faro Arm, MasterCam, Tooling and a huge chunk of aluminum. Might be able to do it for under 150K

The local foundry I know of does a lot of art stuff,  one off, Bells,   Etc.     
     An engine Block you'd probably have to do open deck  then weld the deck in place.  Once everything had stabilized mill  everything square. An   ordinary mill will be fine  unless you charge yourself for your time.  . Later use top hat sleeves to seal it.  
 

       Once the block is squared up  use the old main caps to locate the bolt holes for the crank and existing heads to ensure head bolt alignment.  Really the only thing requiring measurement will be the location of the head locating dowels.   You can measure one location and then using a transfer pin,  mark the other.  

 Crank boring would be done after  the block is decked.   There are companies that specialize in line boring.  Likely you've got 10-23 hours of work. But they'll give you a quote. Bring your old block with you 

      So the cam, oil galley etc would all line up.  Boring up to the oil galley from the mains will require a  guide held in place but could be done on a simple drill press.    Maybe you should  do a blind hole first so  you don't have  fragments coming loose.   You  could even  drill up through the camshaft hole  fit some Allen head tapered pipe taps in and drill back into the galley.  Really depends on how the Chrysler factory did it in the first place.  
  Now the factory does all that in a couple of passes with gang drills.  But doing them one at a time once the head is securely located isn't challenging at all. 
 Plenty of labor. Most in the set up. But all doable for a determined amateur. 

You have a way to make stuff sound easy ... yet you are here asking how hard it would be. 

GameboyRMH said:

I have an idea on how to get some produced with no initial expenditure, although I don't know at what final cost:

Make a CAD file of the block, upload it to Alibaba's manufacturer section with a full description of exactly what it is and how much they're worth, say you're interested in getting some produced, talk with any companies that ask questions but don't actually go ahead with it. Wait a few months and see how much the replacement blocks that will be available on there are going for 

That's absolutely brilliant.   I know there is a big demand. Maybe he can set up a side business ?   His is a 392. But wouldn't the difference be  stroke in the crank and the bore in the cylinders?   They didn't cast new block for each variation did they?  

Facebook group for early Hemis

Ebay 392

331 complete engine

Driven5 said:

You do not want to go down this route to pop out just one block: https://healeyfactory.com.au/services/dmd-australia/dmd-austin-healey-alloy-aluminium-engine-development-and-manufacturing-process/

Your best bet would probably be to reach out to Bare Block Motors: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/theres-a-new-hemi-in-town-bear-block-motors-392-hemi-block/

I don't see the block listed on their site, but they've already developed it. So your buddy might just need to contact them and find out how big of a group buy with how big of a pile of up-front cash it would take to get them to do a run.

There it is. Call Bare Block.

Slippery said:

frenchyd said:

Asphalt_Gundam said:

Pretty much any Foundry won't touch it unless it's their designed mold, etc. Then you have the fact that unless you're getting A LOT of them, they don't want the job. I couldn't even find a foundry that would use a proven mold I already had and do a small production run for valve covers.....

The Cheapest (and fastest) DIY way would be: Buy a 5 axis CNC, Faro Arm, MasterCam, Tooling and a huge chunk of aluminum. Might be able to do it for under 150K

The local foundry I know of does a lot of art stuff,  one off, Bells,   Etc.     
     An engine Block you'd probably have to do open deck  then weld the deck in place.  Once everything had stabilized mill  everything square. An   ordinary mill will be fine  unless you charge yourself for your time.  . Later use top hat sleeves to seal it.  
 

       Once the block is squared up  use the old main caps to locate the bolt holes for the crank and existing heads to ensure head bolt alignment.  Really the only thing requiring measurement will be the location of the head locating dowels.   You can measure one location and then using a transfer pin,  mark the other.  

 Crank boring would be done after  the block is decked.   There are companies that specialize in line boring.  Likely you've got 10-23 hours of work. But they'll give you a quote. Bring your old block with you 

      So the cam, oil galley etc would all line up.  Boring up to the oil galley from the mains will require a  guide held in place but could be done on a simple drill press.    Maybe you should  do a blind hole first so  you don't have  fragments coming loose.   You  could even  drill up through the camshaft hole  fit some Allen head tapered pipe taps in and drill back into the galley.  Really depends on how the Chrysler factory did it in the first place.  
  Now the factory does all that in a couple of passes with gang drills.  But doing them one at a time once the head is securely located isn't challenging at all. 
 Plenty of labor. Most in the set up. But all doable for a determined amateur. 

You have a way to make stuff sound easy ... yet you are here asking how hard it would be. 

Doesn't it depend on your skills?   To me the hard part is getting a casting to work with.   Everything else is just work.   Well,  fun work if you enjoy that sort of thing. ( I do ). 

frenchyd said:

I know there is a big demand. Maybe he can set up a side business ?  

Somebody has already developed the engine. If they had experienced 'big demand' it would probably already be listed on their site. But even assuming he's got a better line into the market than they do, as a business he'd be better off buying in bulk from them on a 'private label' deal and just reselling them at a modest profit than he would be reinventing the wheel... Or for more up-front cost and risk, maybe even buying the tooling off of them. If it hasn't been a profitable venture, there is a chance they would be willing to sell it off at a discount compared to what it would cost to recreate.

Appleseed said:

Ebay 392

331 complete engine

Perhaps the supply vs demand isn't as bad as expected.

Keith Tanner said:

Driven5 said:

You do not want to go down this route to pop out just one block: https://healeyfactory.com.au/services/dmd-australia/dmd-austin-healey-alloy-aluminium-engine-development-and-manufacturing-process/

Your best bet would probably be to reach out to Bare Block Motors: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/theres-a-new-hemi-in-town-bear-block-motors-392-hemi-block/

I don't see the block listed on their site, but they've already developed it. So your buddy might just need to contact them and find out how big of a group buy with how big of a pile of up-front cash it would take to get them to do a run.

There it is. Call Bare Block.

    Sure worth a phone call.   I'll remind you how cheap I am,  I've never once charged myself a penny for this kind of work (fun) 

 For 99.9 % of people  that's what they'd do.   Maybe I've got a secret Enzo Ferrari , William Lyons bone.  They just had their engineers draw up blue prints and send them to some foundry in Italy/England. 
   Me?   I'd just want to watch over their shoulders at the foundry. Drag it home and start making chips.  
     

In reply to Driven5 :

That sounds good.  Curious about the repair but I'll pass it along.

A 1957 Hemi would be either a 354 or a 392, depending on the model.  They are pretty rare these days, but they can still be found.  Even one that needs extensive work is going to be cheaper than trying to cast a new block.  I just checked the classified ads on the HAMB board and found several of them.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/392-hemi.1279639/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1958-chrysler-hemi-392-block-heads-crank.1281286/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/running-early-392-hemi-for-sale-price-drop-5-500.1278716/

frenchyd said:

Keith Tanner said:

Driven5 said:

You do not want to go down this route to pop out just one block: https://healeyfactory.com.au/services/dmd-australia/dmd-austin-healey-alloy-aluminium-engine-development-and-manufacturing-process/

Your best bet would probably be to reach out to Bare Block Motors: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/theres-a-new-hemi-in-town-bear-block-motors-392-hemi-block/

I don't see the block listed on their site, but they've already developed it. So your buddy might just need to contact them and find out how big of a group buy with how big of a pile of up-front cash it would take to get them to do a run.

There it is. Call Bare Block.

    Sure worth a phone call.   I'll remind you how cheap I am,  I've never once charged myself a penny for this kind of work (fun) 

 For 99.9 % of people  that's what they'd do.   Maybe I've got a secret Enzo Ferrari , William Lyons bone.  They just had their engineers draw up blue prints and send them to some foundry in Italy/England. 
   Me?   I'd just want to watch over their shoulders at the foundry. Drag it home and start making chips.  
     

So you just want a raw casting with no machining?

Get your engineers to draw up some blueprints (they might need to be paid), send it to a foundry (who will want to be paid) and you can make all the chips you want out of the random piece of iron that shows up. Note that Enzo and Lyons were not trying to get one or two of something made, and they were charging solid money for their work.

There's no way to disguise a newer engine to look like the earlier one? Cheat a little?

I've heard stories from a few different people about what it took just to make cast turbo log manifolds.   4 holes on one side, 1 on the other, with a cavity in between that connects them.  Super simple and yet it took tens of thousands of dollars and several years of back-and-forth to go from first plans to having parts on the shelf.

An engine block is vastly more complicated than that, and I hate to think how much more expensive and time consuming it would be.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

I've heard stories from a few different people about what it took just to make cast turbo log manifolds.   4 holes on one side, 1 on the other, with a cavity in between that connects them.  Super simple and yet it took tens of thousands of dollars and several years of back-and-forth to go from first plans to having parts on the shelf.

An engine block is vastly more complicated than that, and I hate to think how much more expensive and time consuming it would be.

I can tell many of those stories :)

stuart in mn said:

A 1957 Hemi would be either a 354 or a 392, depending on the model.  They are pretty rare these days, but they can still be found.  Even one that needs extensive work is going to be cheaper than trying to cast a new block.  I just checked the classified ads on the HAMB board and found several of them.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/392-hemi.1279639/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1958-chrysler-hemi-392-block-heads-crank.1281286/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/running-early-392-hemi-for-sale-price-drop-5-500.1278716/

That's too easy, and too authentic, compared to a one-off clone of the broken block if the goal is to maintain originality as much as possible. 

I'm guessing the total cost to employers in the productivity of the people posting on this topic is more that the cost of the engines you posted  

In reply to No Time :

All of those sound a lot better to me than doing a one off block.  
   Granted I'm not connected to hot rod sites or checked EBay etc.  but he should have been. 
     

stuart in mn said:

A 1957 Hemi would be either a 354 or a 392, depending on the model.  They are pretty rare these days, but they can still be found.  Even one that needs extensive work is going to be cheaper than trying to cast a new block.  I just checked the classified ads on the HAMB board and found several of them.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/392-hemi.1279639/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1958-chrysler-hemi-392-block-heads-crank.1281286/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/running-early-392-hemi-for-sale-price-drop-5-500.1278716/

Those all seem like great deals.  Like I said I failed to check assuming they were hens teeth. But you'd think he would have.  
            Anyway I'll pass those on along with the EBay listing.  Thanks. 

Casting a block is relatively easy compared to machining it.  

Even simple things like the oil galleries.  You need to be able to precisely drill intersecting holes up to 24" deep.  

4 motors available in a relatively short period of time....

Somebody's asking the wrong questions. 

Possibly a dumb question, but has he searched for a different keyword?

First-gen Hemi's weren't called Hemi's.  It wasn't until the Elephant 426 came out that Mopar started calling them Hemi's.  We call them Hemi's because they have a hemispherical chamber, but early ones were never called a Hemi.

I did an FBM search just now for Red Ram (dodge's marketing name), Fire Power (Chrysler's marketing name), and Fire Dome (DeSoto's marketing name). and came up with multiple examples, some of them within 30 miles of me.

One of them in is Pottsville, PA, complete from pan to air cleaner and all accessories for $900 and it includes the transmission.  Came from a 56 Coronet, so it's likely the 270.

It would really help to know what block he's looking for.  If it's the 392, that's the only one with a 4" bore (IIRC).  If he's looking for 331, 354, 270, 276, 291, 330, 341, 345, 241, 315, or 325, they all got their cubes with a few different bores and a few different strokes.  Should be easy to find a block that will take his crank and make one of those displacements. 

'55 Red Ram 241 in CT

56 Red Ram (probably 270) in PA

Twin 331s in PA. It's a twofer

Here's a 354 from 1957

Here's a guy with 8 first gens in varying sizes in MA including a 392.

I think your friend needs to up his google game  I found 12 in 10 minutes.  *flips hair confidently*

Slippery said:

You have a way to make stuff sound easy ... yet you are here asking how hard it would be. 

-"How hard would it be to build a 928 racecar?"  

-"Not real easy"

-"you're wrong.  I can build a 650hp twin turbo 928 racecar easily"

frenchyd said:

My contact for the European tour of hot rods  was told his Chrysler Hemi block is ruined. 
      The one he has took him over a decade to find. When he did find it it was really expensive. 
    With 3 D printing etc could you print a wax mold  and sand cast one?   

yes you can investment cast this way, another option is a sand printer and it will actually make the sandcore for you. direct metal printing is too small of a format for this, potentially you could do a wirefed one but its a bit of R&D at the moment for longevity. 

all of these though will need the 3d math file of the part you want to produce so that will be a big hurdle.