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dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/29/15 12:48 p.m.

I had an incident in the last turn at Bridgehampton that used up a car. I still hurt in places on cold rainy days. The car was street legal but was primarily a track car.

The short of it is if you can not afford to ball it up and leave it at the track leave it at home. An old timer told me this when I was just getting started and it was the best advice I ever got.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
5/29/15 1:18 p.m.

Personally, no - but I know a few who have. I've seen a couple of cars bent badly enough at autocrosses to need a tow home.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
5/29/15 1:49 p.m.

Even without wrecking, can you handle a blown engine or gearbox? If it breaks, how are you getting home?

I did a few track-days with the MGB GT, and it never failed to eat a major mechanical component. Certainly not a car I would have counted on to drive to the track and back.

Sell the MGB and buy a Miata.

Jeff
Jeff SuperDork
5/29/15 2:03 p.m.

There is nothing better than driving a car you don't give a E36 M3 about and can afford to wad up. I've done 2 track days in street cars and many more in track dedicated cars. The street cars were infinitely more powerful. The track cars were way more fun.

Hal
Hal SuperDork
5/29/15 3:18 p.m.

In the past 15 years I have had to go get a truck and trailer to pick up someone's car that they wrecked at Summit Point three times (3 different people). Two cases were the guy's DD and the other was a barely street legal race car that he had driven to the track. I also had to pick up cars with mechanical failures that wouldn't let them be driven home twice.

IMO, Track days/racing requires a dedicated disposable car that is trailered to the track.

yamaha
yamaha MegaDork
5/29/15 3:34 p.m.
Slippery wrote: Get insurance if you are worried about the car. Something like this: Lockton Motorsports There are a couple more I cant remember now.

$159 for $10k coverage is great to know. Doesn't cover if the track comes after you personally for Armco damage, but covers the vehicle during hpde's.

mrjre42
mrjre42
5/29/15 3:36 p.m.

One of my good friends wrecked his c6 vette into a tire wall his first time to the track. Spent the rest of the summer repairing all the front end damage...

Fr3AkAzOiD
Fr3AkAzOiD Reader
5/29/15 3:57 p.m.

Don't care if I wad up my wife's old Malibu. My wife has her SUV, I got my dd.

If mechanical failure, I have AAA and my house is within free tow range of VIR and my fathers house is in free tow range of NJMP.

drdisque
drdisque Reader
5/29/15 4:39 p.m.

I'm in the same predicament. I don't want to crash my DD and frankly, it's too fast for me to learn on. A guy I know is selling a very clean Neon ACR w/ all the track prep already done (has a roll bar and harnesses) and his asking price is very reasonable to where I could afford it with no difficulty. However, I have nowhere to put it. I wish I could rent it from him but the logistics of that would be difficult.

MattGent
MattGent Reader
5/29/15 8:17 p.m.

First - no way I would attempt to take a Tacoma to a track day, regardless of what springs it has. I just can't see that as fun. Unless it looks like this:

I've done 7 or 8 track days in the last two years, and seen at least 3 street cars significantly damaged (rolled, or hit wall). There were a couple more with some sheetmetal hurt.

In 20 years of autocrossing I've seen at least 5 cars significantly damaged, including my dad's.

All of these incidents were single vehicle.

Until recently my track day car was my DD, but I could afford to buy another one in cash the next day, and I had a backup vehicle.

IMO it would be financially irresponsible to track a car without track insurance that you couldn't afford to replace.

Tom1200
Tom1200 Reader
5/29/15 11:36 p.m.

I have a friend with a Tacoma sport ( he happens to have a national championship under his belt and loves drinving the truck) they can actually be fun to drive.

Now as for the daily driver; I used my Showroom Stock Miata as a DD s well as racing it for two seasons. The motor spun a bearing once and I drove my truck for the next two weeks. I only ran at the local track, minutes from my house, so no big deal.

I use my vintage race car for track days so obviously I trailer it. While Datsuns are pretty sturdy it has broken. Both times it was due to parts we were testing and the car while relatively slow, is tuned much more heavily than stock. If the MGB is in good condition it should be fine, one of the people I race with has a moderately tuned MGB and that thing just pounds out the laps.

As for poeple having issues, perhaps it's becuase desert tracks have lots of run off (albeit rocky), over the last 15 years I've seen maybe two people damage their street car bad enough that it couldnt be driven home. Granted I run at events where everyone encourages entrants to be kind to thier car, trailered or not. I usually tell students "this is a pretty car, I'd prefer you not to damage it".

Now what I have to say next may offend some BUT you shouldn't even be dropping wheels at a track day or really even spinning the car (it happens).....it's a friggin track day. I am a reeeeeally aggressive driver but even I dial it back to 85-90 percent which is what tracks days are about, drive way faster than you can on the street but keep it at a level below race speed as most cars do not have all the safety gear.

Back to the cars I have seen damaged, both cases were people who over drove the car big time, as if Roger Penske is hiding in the weeds looking for his next Indy car driver, you could see it coming 4 corners before it happened. I can't remember how many times I have been instructing and told a student to hang back a little as a car in front is going to spin in the next corner (no no I'm fine I don't need an instructor). Years ago a buddy asked me to give some feedback to someone he knew who wadded their Subaru at Lime Rock; the crash happened in the right hander before the uphill (don't know what the turn is called) but when I made the comment the crash started in turn 2 no one understood. I explained that he was already over his head in 2 and yet continued hammering along anyway so it was only a matter of time. We went round and round a little till it sunk in "why are you trying that hard at a track day" I mention this becuase if you can't recognize your own aggressive behavior than DO NOT take your DD.

Using a daily driver; I have no issue doing this but allowances must be made. You need to give cars space so if they have a problem you don't get caught up in it. Go out in a run group that has designated passing, brake a little early, be deliberate and smooth with your driving as well as shifting. Don't rev the snot out of the motor on every shift. Yes you can wad your car on track but the driver has way more control than on the street, where some texting crack smoking drunk can plow into your car.

Tom

dropstep
dropstep Reader
5/29/15 11:44 p.m.
Hal wrote: In the past 15 years I have had to go get a truck and trailer to pick up someone's car that they wrecked at Summit Point three times (3 different people). Two cases were the guy's DD and the other was a barely street legal race car that he had driven to the track. I also had to pick up cars with mechanical failures that wouldn't let them be driven home twice. IMO, Track days/racing requires a dedicated disposable car that is trailered to the track.

im a firm beleiver in the last line of this post. i learned that lesson the exspensive way at a dragstrip 2 hours from my house.

ddavidv
ddavidv PowerDork
5/30/15 5:31 a.m.

$1500 bought my current daily driver 2000 Focus. It has a Zetec and a 5 speed and even my wife agrees the little rat is fun to drive. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. If you use a 2000 Focus for a track toy and wad it up, so what? They are out there. That's cheap insurance vs crashing a vehicle you have to depend on. I used to track my DD car and now cringe when I think about all the things that could have gone wrong with that plan.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
5/30/15 8:00 a.m.

I guess some of the issue is whether your DD is your only vehicle or if you have a back-up car or two. I could modify my TDI wagon and turn it into a dual-purpose track car (I know a guy with the same car, but heavily upgraded and he tracks it often), but I also have at least one other car to drive should it all go pear-shaped. It may be a PITA getting home, but getting the work the next day wouldn't be a problem and it's value is such that I could easily walk away from it at this point in my financial life. That said, I have more than a little attachment to the car (first car I bought new and currently has 329K miles on it), so I'd rather not risk wadding it up.

This is always going to be one of those subjects where the risk analysis is greatly dependent on each individual's unique situation, so there are no right or wrong answers.

problemaddict
problemaddict Reader
5/30/15 8:50 a.m.

Thanks so much for all your input. This has been great reading. Its funny. You have me waffling on every other post:

"Its safer than on the street, no drunks, etc." - Me: Yeah, that's true. +1 Track

"I've seen street cars wreck at autox and dragstrip" - Me: Oh, I once saw a Focus flip upside down at an autox +1 Stay Home

"In so many years I've only seen a few cars wreck and they were all F&F, arrogant, over-drivers." - Me: I'm definately a realist and only looking to drive fast w/o law enforcement consequences, learn my car (truck), learn a track etc. I'd be quite happy driving at 8/10ths +1 Track

"Someone else's cooling/oil system failure could ruin your day." - Me: Hrrrmmm... +1 Stay Home

And on and on. @JohnyHachi6 thanks for pointing out the option of paced laps. I hadn't heard about that part of the program before. That is probably what I'll do. See the track, see who shows up with what attitude, and maybe I could catch a ride-along w/ someone doing the track time. That would be a good experience. Now that I'm thinking about this more, though, the thought of getting from northwest of Philly to South Jersey at 4pm on a Wednesday sounds like a nightmare. Maybe I can get out of work early....

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
5/30/15 9:44 a.m.

I've AXed DD's before (an MGB and a Ford Fiesta; the REAL one, not the badge replica sold now) but not done track days with them. I have acquaintances who have had a big 4x4 as a DD and busted them bad while mudding; it really put them in a jam and is the reason I have had a dedicated race car for many moons now. If I wad the Jensenator up, it'll sadden me but I'll still have a way to get around.

LuxInterior
LuxInterior Reader
5/30/15 9:44 a.m.

I had a too-nice-to-wad-up daily. So before I did my first track day, I picked up a R package Miata with roll bar for $2800. I tracked that car for several years. Great platform to learn on etc. Etc. It was totaled when it was t-boned by a Chevy pickup... On the street.

Wally
Wally MegaDork
5/30/15 11:03 a.m.

One of the first 3rd Gen Camaros I saw when I was a kid tried to take down the wall at Freeport Speedway during spectator drags. I doubt it was more that a month old.

Tom1200
Tom1200 Reader
5/30/15 1:24 p.m.

My buddy and race mechanic had chastised me about flogging the DD in years past. He reminded me just this morning that I always had a back up.......crash the DD means I drive the truck for a few weeks.......or months.

 Tom
David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
5/30/15 2:55 p.m.

I think it also depends on the driver, the track and the situation. 10/10ths in the rain at Road Atlanta is a little different than 7/10ths at PBIR in the dry.

wbjones
wbjones MegaDork
5/30/15 6:35 p.m.

I've never wrecked my DD on a track day … but I did spin coming out of Hog Pen at VIR in my DD Integra (no damage other than ego)… on the way home I pretty much convinced myself that I wasn't going to take it to the track anymore

that said, it took me several months before I bit the bullet and bought the CRX … drove it (with tire trailer) to the track for several track days … but as I "progressed" I decided that I would like to tow it to the track (I still drive it to and from autocrosses) …

A) I wanted to be relatively sure I'd have a way home
and
B) I wanted AC for the 90°+ 3 - 4 hr drives home

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson UltimaDork
5/30/15 7:05 p.m.
Curmudgeon wrote: A Ford Fiesta; the REAL one, not the badge replica sold now

Not wanting to E36 M3 this up, but what is not real about the current Fiesta ? Its the same awesome car sold all over the world and all Ford, not shared with anyone else.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
5/30/15 9:37 p.m.

By the way, I tracked our Fiesta in bone-stock condition--this was before we turned it into a B Spec car. Yeah, it was slow, but I had fun out there.

maj75
maj75 Reader
5/30/15 11:11 p.m.

At the January Sebring track event, a guy put his new McLaren in the tires on Turn 16!

Jaynen
Jaynen Dork
5/31/15 12:13 a.m.

It really comes down to this.

You can do a lot to minimize risk but what do you do if something does happen. This isn't to be scary or anything but if the car breaks something even somewhat minor that won't let you drive home/leaves you carless for a couple days?

Can you self insure or are willing to spend the extra 150+ bucks for the day to get race insurance (in addition to your track day fee itself). If this is a car with payments on it this goes even more so.

The cost of a miata is just almost too ridiculous. I paid 2400 for mine, I did put a rollbar in it (around 600) some new brake pads, fluid flush etc and a set of new tires on the stock wheels but then I took it to a track day with still around maybe 3400 bucks into it. I think my registration is 50 bucks a year and insurance is 75-100 bucks every 6 months.

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