How many of you have wrecked your daily at a track day?

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: A Ford Fiesta; the REAL one, not the badge replica sold now

Not wanting to E36 M3 this up, but what is not real about the current Fiesta ? Its the same awesome car sold all over the world and all Ford, not shared with anyone else.

I've owned four Mk1 Fiestas and, while I feel Ford hasn't built a worthy successor to it yet, the current Fiesta is indeed a proper Ford. The original Fiesta was a cheap economy car. The current model is also the same sort of product. The only real difference is the Mk1 had the good fortune to be better than the sum of its parts; it was one of those lucky accidents that happens with cars occasionally.

Now, when we talk about Festivas OTOH I get really cranky when people confuse them with the Fiesta. That was a poorly named, Korean built re-badge of a willing but uninspiring box on wheels that had nothing Ford in it.

I have never had any more trepidation with driving my daily driver or someone else's pride and joy on track than I would driving it on the Schuylkill Expressway. In the beginning it was because I didn't know what I didn't know. Today it is because I have thousands of days of experience at TT, W2W, instructing and general tomfoolery on racetracks. In the beginning I was probably lucky to have skated a few close calls and today I can generally see them coming far enough out and when I can't I've got enough programming to minimize the trouble... but that trouble has included bent parts on more than one occasion. Anti-freeze is a harsh lesson in how your reaction time is not adequate no matter how good it is. I can sense high and low pressure changes in the weather with my neck thanks to a student totaling his car whilst I was along for the ride. I have seen many a beloved car leave on a rollback when someone ran out of talent or luck.

If you can afford a dedicated toy for this you will be better off but if you can't - do buy the insurance. Fear hinders learning. Fear of crashing will fade as your skill increases. Fear of financial loss will keep you from pushing the envelope to acquire the skills to alleviate the fear of crashing.

Shiny side up and all that.

My son was tracking his daily driver, an FRS. Last event, he ended up sideways in the middle of the track between turn 1 and 2 at Sebring. Car wouldn't restart immediately. After that incident, we decided to put together a track car that he can use without the worry of damaging his DD. We got another E36 since that now makes 8 in our friend group. Plenty of knowledge and spares that can be shared.

I think the other thing you need is an attitude of you don't have to "make the most" of your track day. And its not a race.

My first track day was 126 degrees on the track and it was at Willow Springs Raceway. (wrong track for your first time) I watched a way overheated guy in our group which was a Focus group decide to go out again for one more run because he wanted video footage. This guy had been sweating in a chair for hours but couldn't end his day without going out again. He lost the rear end on the back side of the track went off the track and actually hit one of the big ditch/berms they have to keep race cars from going all the way across the infield, launched it blew the airbags etc.

I have friends who won't run the last session of the day because its usually when bad stuff happens because people are pushing/careless/tired/hot

I have very little reservations about taking a daily to AutoX however but would advice knowing you can easily tear up your tires

Jaynen wrote: I think the other thing you need is an attitude of you don't have to "make the most" of your track day. And its not a race. My first track day was 126 degrees on the track and it was at Willow Springs Raceway. (wrong track for your first time) I watched a way overheated guy in our group which was a Focus group decide to go out again for one more run because he wanted video footage. This guy had been sweating in a chair for hours but couldn't end his day without going out again. He lost the rear end on the back side of the track went off the track and actually hit one of the big ditch/berms they have to keep race cars from going all the way across the infield, launched it blew the airbags etc. I have friends who won't run the last session of the day because its usually when bad stuff happens because people are pushing/careless/tired/hot I have very little reservations about taking a daily to AutoX however but would advice knowing you can easily tear up your tires

While true, I think the majority of the incidents I've seen are in the first session due to cold tires.

In reply to Jaynen:

I was just going to post something similar.

You have to be prepared to eat some or all of your $300 entry fee. While the events are usually run rain or shine, things can get really expensive in the rain.

And...

A few years ago, I did a big event at Pocono where we were running all three of the road courses. I left at 4:30 am and drove there from Connecticut, hauling my track car on a trailer. In addition to driving my Miata, I had made arrangements with the guy from Entropy Racing to run a session or two in one of his sports racers. Between the drive to the track and almost non-stop sessions in my car, I was pretty exhausted by about 2:30. I skipped the sports racer and decided to pack up early and head home. As I was putting the Miata back on the trailer, I watched a guy stuff his M3 into the wall on Turn 1. I was immediately wondering if he was as tired as I was. I was glad that I had made the decision that I did.

Remember: you may not be the only one out there who's not as sharp as you were in the morning.

Good point.

Fatigue is one of those things that people never account for. A beginner or intermediate student rarely has the mental endurance for more than 2 or 3 20 minute sessions. I can see many of the novice group flagging after lunch. Even the in the advanced group - the guys who are skilled but not really regulars (maybe 2-3 events a year) fade and make mistakes. If it's a 2 day event... hangovers take a huge toll on good rest and you get a top notch E36 M3 show in all groups.

I routinely skip my last session of the day. Between driving my car and instructing in the heat out here, by the end of the day I'm pretty wiped out.

I know I'm not going to get good times because of the heat and sometimes I just want to pack up a little early and start the drive home.

For better or worse, fatique is a lesson I learned the hard way from racing/riding downhill mtn bikes. It's sort of an unwritten rule to never say "last run" or "one more run". Instead you say, "I'll do a few more runs" and then get to the bottom after a couple and simply say, "OK. I'm done."

While crashing is part of riding DH, the wrecks seem to be worse when they're due to fatigue because you literally can't hold onto the bike anymore or you lapse mentally and make stupid mistakes.

In much the same way a lot of what I do at autocross I learned riding DH, I feel fairly confident in being able to recognize fatique when I am able to start doing track events.

In endurance racing or even longer sprints - you have to stay out... and be consistent. 4hrs in the heat is difficult and I've gotten out of the car more exhausted than when I've run a half marathon. It takes practice to know your limits and how to cope with them so skipping those last runs isn't always a good idea - but using them as endurance building exercises means running laps at 80% of your fast laps.

Wear a heart rate monitor and keep yourself in a particular zone (age/fitness will decide which one).

the longest I've ever driven (chump car) was a 2 1/2hr stint … multiple 15 - 20 min sessions, even in the heat at Road Atlanta in July don't seem to be a problem … maybe I'm not running hard enough ..LOL

but a cool suit IS really nice … though it did run out of cool at VIR in Aug about a 1/2 hr before the stint ended

The longest I've ever driven at once was probably close to 10 hours...then a quick 2 hour nap and another 10 hours! Gonna do it again later this month.

You guys are doing it all wrong. If you're planning on skipping a session, skip the first one after lunch and take your time getting ready for the last 2 of the afternoon. Usually here it's 2 in the morning, 3 in the afternoon.

Usually the last session of the day gets you the least amount of cars on track, and at least at our local track, we typically get a couple of extra laps during the last session.

In reply to GameboyRMH: That must be cool - we have silly rules about how long a single stint or total drive time for one driver can be. I would love to try to do a 2 man 25hr team at Thunderhill! That would be awesome.

Whoops I made a mistake...it was 2 stops, first was 1 hour, second was 2 hours, so the longest stint would've been somewhere under 8 hours. The first stop didn't feel like a break because it was a mad rush, I was eating a drumstick with one hand in the restart line.

I went to an HPDE this weekend, with a well-regarded club that has excellent instructors and focuses on safety.

I saw one novice do sheet metal damage to a DD E46 when he hit a turn too hot. I saw another near-novice land his E36 on its drivers side hitting a turn too hot. A third near-novice totaled a DD e46 by getting two wheels off and then shooting straight across the track into a berm that launched the car 4 feet in the air. There were only 80 participants in the school.

Basically, I only go to safe HPDE club events with about 80-100 students per school. I would say at half of them, I see a student seriously mess up a car. Often, it's not their fault at all.

and yet each of the examples you posted were definitely the drivers fault

That's how it worked out this weekend. But there have been others, and really who wants to hear me recount any more examples?

I think part of the point of going to the track is to push the limits. While it's nice say, "I'm only going to go 80%" how does one learn where that 80% is? Small mistakes at high speeds can result in big consequences.

You could be puttering along thinking you're totally in control. Until you're not.

Jamey_from_Legal wrote: I went to an HPDE this weekend, with a well-regarded club that has excellent instructors and focuses on safety. I saw one novice do sheet metal damage to a DD E46 when he hit a turn too hot. I saw another near-novice land his E36 on its drivers side hitting a turn too hot. A third near-novice totaled a DD e46 by getting two wheels off and then shooting straight across the track into a berm that launched the car 4 feet in the air. There were only 80 participants in the school. Basically, I only go to safe HPDE club events with about 80-100 students per school. I would say at half of them, I see a student seriously mess up a car. Often, it's not their fault at all.

I'd hate to see your definition of an "unsafe" HPDE event. :) The last Chumpcar race I participated in had far less damage.

Haha, lookie what shows up today! So apropos.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

I have wanted to do that for a very long time now. 24hrs, two drivers like the old days. Get out there and test your limits. If you find a race that will allow that, I'm in.

ddavidv wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: A Ford Fiesta; the REAL one, not the badge replica sold now

Not wanting to E36 M3 this up, but what is not real about the current Fiesta ? Its the same awesome car sold all over the world and all Ford, not shared with anyone else.

I've owned four Mk1 Fiestas and, while I feel Ford hasn't built a worthy successor to it yet, the current Fiesta is indeed a proper Ford. The original Fiesta was a cheap economy car. The current model is also the same sort of product. The only real difference is the Mk1 had the good fortune to be better than the sum of its parts; it was one of those lucky accidents that happens with cars occasionally. Now, when we talk about Festivas OTOH I get really cranky when people confuse them with the Fiesta. That was a poorly named, Korean built re-badge of a willing but uninspiring box on wheels that had nothing Ford in it.

Nope, they still haven't built a worthy successor. GREAT little car; I bought it to flip but liked it so much I kept it and drove it till a Buick turned it into tin popcorn.

No, the Festiva wasn't a worthy successor. It wasn't as quick and didn't have the fun quotient of the Fiesta, the doors went 'bong' when closed, it just felt like cheap crap. But, I worked for a Ford dealer when those were new and you know something? Based on the population of cars we sold, the warranty claim rate on them was practically nil and what there was was generally piddly stuff like light bulbs, radio knobs, stuff like that. They ended importation here in what, 1993? and were replaced by the Aspire which I had no experience with (left Ford in 1991). The point I'm getting to: I still see Festivas just about every day, usually with badly faded paint and an interior full of crap, driven by people who look like they change the oil only when the engine knocking drowns out the sound of the domestic arguments inside and the damn things are still going strong. Gotta salute something like that.

wbjones wrote: the longest I've ever driven (chump car) was a 2 1/2hr stint … multiple 15 - 20 min sessions, even in the heat at Road Atlanta in July don't seem to be a problem … maybe I'm not running hard enough ..LOL but a cool suit IS really nice … though it did run out of cool at VIR in Aug about a 1/2 hr before the stint ended

Y'all running a timer? We got a bait well timer, that way the driver doesn't have to mess with it and the ice lasts longer. They're usually around $40, maybe a little cheaper at Wally World.

We've also taken to using frozen water bottles instead of crushed/cubed ice, doesn't get quite as cold but it lasts longer.

this was with Subydude (from another forum) …his (and 2 or 3 others car) … I've got a box and all the lines and wiring … just haven't hooked it up in the CRX yet