It is generally accepted around here that a manual transmission is more fun than an automatic one. I also agree with that opinion but just how much fun does a slush box take away from a car? Can we nail it down to a formula? Like -20% total fun? Or a maximum cap on the total amount of fun possible?
Edit: the title is supposed to read. "How much fun do you lose by having an automatic transmission." Maybe a mod could change it for me?
It really depends on the car and the transmission. Some automatics are pretty good, others not so much. And the engine's powerband plays into it too. Some cars don't give up much with an auto, others it's the difference between fun and miserable.
It really depends on the person. When I'm driving for performance, I'd actually prefer not to manage a clutch. It's only in that time when I'm not stuck in traffic AND I'm not trying to eke out 100% of performance that I like the full action of shifting. Give me a good flappy paddle and I'm most happy.
It certainly depends on the person. For me it's 100%. I don't know how to drive an automatic. Absolutely can't stand them.
PDK 0% fun loss. Others I don't know lol.
The car plays a huge roll, as does the auto trans
An auto in a 4cyl Honda? Absolutely robs the car of soul, and turns it into an appliance
An auto in a V8 Camaro / Mustang---- the torque helps and these can be nearly as fun as a manual
Also, some autos are excellent (VW's DSG), and others are miserable (Nissan CVT)
On the same token, some manuals are joyless (VW Jetta) and some are wonderful (Miata / S2000)
It's really too broad a question to answer with a simple formula. It varies greatly from car to car, transmission to transmission.
That said, although I like to keep one Auto car in my fleet (in case of injury, or having to deal with heavy traffic) I almost always prefer driving a manual.
None if you have a bench seat and a little lady to keep close.
Edit: or a guy, I don't judge.
Depends on the car and why you are driving. For driving to and from work, which in my case involves a lot of traffic and construction, I prefer an automatic (mine is a BMW 128i). If I am just driving for fun, there is no substitute for a good manual.
As I age, I'm liking automatics better, except for my sport cars. They shall remain manual.
I think the other thing is how many gears in that auto? The 4-spd in the old Rio was hell. Soul-sapping, mind numbingly boring. The wife's 6-spd auto in the Forte is pretty good.
I'm pretty sure swapping auto-manual in the Odyssey would increase fun by 0%
On older transmissions, there was a decent difference between them. But with manuals having more gears, being larger in size and with autos getting to be quite efficient with more gears, the difference is probably small now.
On a lot of cars, the autos get better gas mileage than the manuals. So there won't be a definitive percent difference that applies, it will vary quite a bit.
It's subjective. To answer indirectly, in a fun car I'd gladly take a 50% power hit for a manual transmission. I will freely admit that I've never driven the very best automatics like the Porsche PDK, or the 10-speed in the Camaro ZL1.
Some cars, like my BMW 740i Sport, are well suited to the automatic even when hustling along rapidly in the twisties.
My rule is that 3-4 cyl cars need manuals, 6 cyl cars can go either way, depending on car and power output, and 8 or larger can easily be automatic only.
Every car I've ever bought new has had a manual trans, by choice. But so far, most of my favorite cars have had autoboxes, either because they only came that way, like the E38 or because they had built autoboxes behind high power modded engines, like my V8 RX7 and Daytona Spyder replica. Those of you who will only drive manuals miss out on some great cars, like this one:
IMHO, it mostly depends on the use you're putting the car to. Car type is really derivative from this, in that certain cars are designed for certain tasks.
Race car: You do what the rules say. If there's a choice in the rules, then flappy paddle/DSG/PDK will turn faster laptimes, so duh.
"fun" track car or mountain road/etc sports car: Even the best automatic is way less fun. 50% hit at least.
DD: Minor fun loss from automatic. 10-20%
DD in stop-and-go-driving: No fun loss at all from automatic. Arguably automatic better.
Tow vehicle: automatic way better.
I like an auto in my truck.
I like a manual in my sports car.
Specifically, how does the GM 6 or 8 speed transmissions hold up in a more severe environment (autocross or HPDE)?
Both the RWD and the FWD variants?
They are so much easier to find than the CTS manual versions. The Camaro versions have deep first and second gears.
I’ve never once driven a crisp shifting automatic and thought damn, I wish i was rowing gears. I couldn’t imagine my wrx with an auto though
Not to hijack, but, what about an auto miata?
My experience is that modern automatic cars are pretty good for bursts of speed, and ~OK~ for most other things. Older autos (the domestic lethargic junk I've driven) are just about worthless from a fun perspective.
My wife's 3.5 camry is not a bad drive, and the auto will kick down and respond faster than most turbos will spool.
I couldn't stand the auto C4. Sold it.
Auto Grand Cherokee (97 4.0) was pretty good. Far from sporty though.
On the whole (insert preparation H joke here) I prefer manual. Just for fun.
As said, totally depends on the car. If you have a new car with a bad e-throttle that assumes: A> Nobody really ordered me with a Manual transmission and B> If they can somehow drive a manual, surely they're just stabbing absentmindedly with their Chacos and don't REALLY want to rev match....then yeah, you might as well have an automatic.
But there is a skillset to being able to row through the gears and revmatch down through three gears while braking without upsetting the car. If you can do that and the car is a willing partner, that's a zenlike state.
Or there's I-285 in Atlanta...same car, same driver, "I can't tell if my clutch bushing is creaking or if I need a knee replacement?"
PDK...mmm tasty. Electric cars just over the horizon. The (manual?) transmission is damn near dead.
I'm glad I can operate a manual, and pretty damn well. I can't afford to race anything that has PDK, so I will have a venue to continue to need that skill for now. But if I were a new car buyer, I probably wouldn't opt for a manual. It hurts just reading that.
marks93cobra said:Not to hijack, but, what about an auto miata?
From what I’ve heard, they sap too much power from a NA or NB. I’ve also heard the NC is quite pleasant with the automatic, but there will be some performance loss.
In reply to racerdave600 :
Cruising with the top down, wind in your hair, and good tunes on the radio, an automatic is fine. Rush hour traffic an automatic is fine. Hauling the race car across country exhausted from too many all nighters an automatic is fine.
Diving inside a competitor on the race track waiting for the pressure to get right so it will shift an automatic is trash! Even if you have converted it to a manual shift that torque converter is costing you power.
My girlfriend's car is a Kia Soul Turbo with a DCT. I find it pretty damn fun. Sometimes I don't really need to row my own gears.
frenchyd said:In reply to racerdave600 :
Cruising with the top down, wind in your hair, and good tunes on the radio, an automatic is fine. Rush hour traffic an automatic is fine. Hauling the race car across country exhausted from too many all nighters an automatic is fine.
Diving inside a competitor on the race track waiting for the pressure to get right so it will shift an automatic is trash! Even if you have converted it to a manual shift that torque converter is costing you power.
I agree. I've never raced anything but a manual, and have only sporadically driven PDKs, and never on track. And I would never want any truck these days without an automatic. I remember our old 18 wheeler White transporter having like 487 gears, and the newer automatic 18 wheelers would blow it away going up hills. Automatics have come a long way, but I still do not want one on track.
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