How much of an improvement would front discs make?

I have a 65 Mustang with 4 wheel, 4 lug disc brakes. Ive replaced every part of this system, and its really not great. Im wondering how much of a difference it would make to swap to front non power discs?

thanks Nick

Lots, the second time you want to stop. First time, not so much.

You want good answers means supplying a lot more information. It's like asking if wearing sneakers is a good idea. .. without saying anything else.

I can answer this because I did a similar conversion on one of my '65s.

I had a V8 fastback with bigger five lug drums. I completely rebuilt the drum system with all new everything and they would still fade to nothingness at the bottom of long hills. The disc brake conversion was the best modification that I ever made to that car. Worth every penny.

When you do the conversion, you should use a '67+ dual master cylinder in place of the single '65, though on a '65-66 I don't think there's room for both the dual cylinder and a power booster. I chose to do without the power brakes.

One other nice upgrade that you can do is to swap the rear drums and shoes for '67s. They're 25% larger and are more resistant to fade.

You will never regret converting to front discs.

Let me put it this way. My fathers 66 with drums all around had no trouble racing in the Rockies.

A well set up drum brake can stop a car very well, repeatedly. Many are not well set up.

The International has drum brakes and one of the four almost works

Just saying

When I bought my 63 Falcon I installed new shoes, drums and wheel cylinders in the same four lug brakes that are on your mustang. They were still awful. The mere notion of using them enough to get them to heat fade sends chills down my spine.

My theory is that modern brakes and modern traffic is much different than it was in the mid 60's. These days even the most basic econobox can out brake a vintage mustang by quite a distance. After a dozen close calls that involved diving into the center median or handy parking lots to avoid cars that panic stopped in front of me I parked the car until I was able to update the brake system.

I went with Granada spindles with 11" rotors up front and Explorer drums out back with a 1" ranger/fox mustang master cylinder. The difference is night and day. Linear braking that has more initial bite and is much more predictable and familiar than the old setup. I never measured before but braking distances have to be significantly better.

Were I to do it again I wouldn't go with granada parts but I would still go with discs right away.

I had a '70 mustang coupe that came with manual drums. I converted it to front disks using a granada donor. Before the conversion the drums worked ok as long as the were correctly adjusted, of course they never stayed correctly adjusted for long. After the conversion braking was much better, with one noteworthy problem, because they were still manual brakes it took a very strong foot to stop. And it got very tiring on long drives. If I had kept that car for a longer time I would have experimented with different size master cyls to reduce the pedal effort.

In reply to foxtrapper:

Very few people left on this earth know how to properly adjust drums.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

adjusting drums... that's that thing you do with a cutting torch and a hammer a few minutes before they mysteriously fall off of the car just in time to avoid getting in the way of the disks that eventually take their place, right?

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to foxtrapper: Very few people left on this earth know how to properly adjust drums.

yeah, because coming to a complete stop every time you back up- and doing a few hard stops in reverse every once in a while- is too complicated for the average person..

I also believe the manufacturers of shoes don't particularly care about them anymore, plus a little asbestos goes a long way to making brake shoes work well...and that business has been enviro'd to death.

There is a company out there- Porterfield? that still makes semi metallic shoes for the vintage race crowd. I had a set of Abex semi-mets on the back of my Camaro, and they actually worked reasonably well.

novaderrik wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to foxtrapper: Very few people left on this earth know how to properly adjust drums.

yeah, because coming to a complete stop every time you back up- and doing a few hard stops in reverse every once in a while- is too complicated for the average person..

I'm talking about properly setting drag, the inoperable or improperly assembled self adjusters is a given.

foxtrapper wrote: Let me put it this way. My fathers 66 with drums all around had no trouble racing in the Rockies. A well set up drum brake can stop a car very well, repeatedly. Many are not well set up.

Fox,

Love you like a brother. But need to beat you about the head and shoulders with a drag link for this one. I get this same argument from some of the crusty old geezers on my truck forum. The ones on my F100 were far bigger than the puny Mustang ones, and they sucked. I swapped to discs, and have no problem with fading, water, maintenance, etc. Worth every penny. Drum brakes suck. They are kind of like saying "points are just as good as a Pertronix if they are properly set". I have that conversion too.

Stop trying to live in the past just because you ride a motorcycle designed two centuries ago.

Places like http://www.musclecarbrakes.com/ offer drum shoes with modern ceramic lining which greatly increase stopping power with less fade issues. A coworker did this on his Challenger and it made a big difference. Since he mainly drag races the car (his dad raced it in the 70's in stock eliminator), he didn't want to switch to discs.

Keeping drums in adjustment isn't hard when the adjusters work. Having to mess with my dad's 53 Mercury with no self adjusting brakes, makes you appreciate self adjusting drums that much more. Thankfully he doesn't drive it alot, cause it takes a bit to get the adjustment right on all four wheels.

4 wheel drums are awesome if you want manual brakes.

Disks in the front almost requires power brakes if you want the same pedal effort.

I've done quite a few disk conversions and dual-stage master conversions. IMO there's nothing wrong with properly functioning four wheel drums.

Streetwiseguy wrote: I also believe the manufacturers of shoes don't particularly care about them anymore, plus a little asbestos goes a long way to making brake shoes work well...and that business has been enviro'd to death. There is a company out there- Porterfield? that still makes semi metallic shoes for the vintage race crowd. I had a set of Abex semi-mets on the back of my Camaro, and they actually worked reasonably well.

and Carbotech can/will make pretty much any pad/shoe you need

aussiesmg wrote: The International has drum brakes and one of the four almost works Just saying

My God that truck looks familiar. Where did you get it? Did it used to be red? Is it the 345 V8?

Drove a 1970 Suburban with 4 manual drums, manual steering, and manual trans. It did stop fairly well for it's size, but discs are better.

You have to do an awful lot of repetitive or long braking to get drums to fade. I had a '67 Plymouth wagon that I towed my SAAB race car with. Only noticed fade once. Just pushed a little harder. Yes it had drums. The way I see people over using their brakes, every intersection, every "sharp" turn, Holding to the speed limit going down hills. That is why disc brakes are so much better

iceracer wrote: You have to do an awful lot of repetitive or long braking to get drums to fade. I had a '67 Plymouth wagon that I towed my SAAB race car with. Only noticed fade once. Just pushed a little harder. Yes it had drums. The way I see people over using their brakes, every intersection, every "sharp" turn, Holding to the speed limit going down hills. That is why disc brakes are so much better

Drums also have nonlinear response with respect to speed and humidity/wetness. Disks are by definition non self energizing, and this means they require so much force against the disk that moisture issues are non-existent.

I'm not saying that drums are 100% perfect, but they're not the horrible things that some people think them to be.

In reply to aussiesmg:

I bet it stops faster than my International.......and my drums barely fit under the 20" wheels.....

In reply to Nick Murphy:

The first change I made to my Mustang was to replace the drums with discs. Back then, I used Granada stuff, but today there are many better alternatives out there.
Another change you want to make IMMEDIATELY is the Shelby upper control arm drop. Disc brakes, control arm drop, and a change from bias ply (if you have them) to radial tires will make dramatic improvements. If you have power steering, you may want to consider making a change there also - And there are many options to make improvements in that area.

bravenrace wrote: If you have power steering, you may want to consider making a change there also - And there are many options to make improvements in that area.

Care to elaborate? Links? Depowering? Rack and pinion swap? (Anybody figured out an off the rack rack, so to speak, that has a rate and throw compatible with the long steering arms on these knuckles?)

EDIT: Apologies for the threadjack, but it seems relevantish...