How much of an M5 is a 540i?

Disclosure, I haven't driven an M5. But I know some of you have, and more than likely have driven a 540/6 as well. I've driven a 540, and originally, that was what I was shopping for. But I'm seeing the prices of the 540/6 cars, the nicer ones, creep closer to M5 territory, and if I'm going to scratch the itch, then I may as well actually get the car that is in my mind's eye. 

I see reports from two camps

1. Don't even think about daily driving it
2. It's the most reliable car I've owned

I'm sure a lot of this comes down to maintenance, but it's probably for a good reason that I see well loved, but well maintained high mileage M5's, and a ton of clapped out, beat to hell 540/30's. Not only because it's an enthusiast car. 

So, who's got some seat time and wants to chime in to help me convince myself I need that M badge?

They are for sure not the same... 

The 540 is a wonderful stoplight to stoplight, cruise control mile eater.  Comfortable, sporty enough for 95% of driving occasions, and the sound is a subdued nice.  I've owned one, and regret selling it.  It's very much the good angel.  

The E39 M5 is the angrier, older sibling that just asks for it at every turn.  It's tighter, sportier (but not full-harsh), and to me just wanted to be let out of its cage constantly.  It's a freaking riot of a car that has no business being as fast and fun as it was for me considering its age...  But I wouldn't exactly call it a mile-eater.  Having driven the M5 on and off track, it really likes to be pushed, and it's intrinsic value comes from the upper 20% of it's capabilities IMHO.  And the sounds. Oh man, the sounds... 

I feel like if you don't know what you're missing in the M5, you'd be 100% satisfied with the 540/6.  I certainly was... until I drove an M5.  I've never owned an M5 and can't speak to its reliability other than my buddy who owns a Euro performance shop, who says it's not bad, but also has techs, tools, and the know-how to handle it.  The 540 never left me stranded or concerned, and aside from it taking a couple shops to get alignment right, I never once had an issue. 

I spent a weekend roadtripping in a 540/6 before buying the E39 M5.  The 540 was nice enough and good enough, the M5 felt special. Like the engineers had been released from constraints. It seems like a completely normal car until you let it off the leash, then it's a maniac. But you don't pay much of a price for the maniac second nature in driving. The nickname for them is "Beast".

A stock M5 is a really good mile eater, actually. It's my choice for driving to Vegas, which is 500 miles each way of high speed deserted interstate. The cruise is completely effortless and the suspension doesn't punish. Seats are great. I'm sure there are a bunch of M5s with muffler deletes and coilovers etc that are much less pleasant on road trips. But in stock form, it's a great autobahn car.

Maintenance - my biggest problems are with E39 stuff, like certain suspension bushings. Some parts are fairly inexpensive and readily available if they're common with E39s. Some are much more expensive because they're M5-exclusive, like PS pumps. If you do have to work on the engine (like servicing the double VANOS), it's definitely expert-level work because that engine does NOT belong in that engine bay and one of the constraints the engineers were allowed to ignore was obviously serviceability. Getting the driver's side valve cover off involves at least one extra dimension of rotation. There are also various sensors that seem to be short-lived, I think I'm due for a pair of O2 sensors again. It's a little high maintenance in that regard. Because of that, I'm not sure I'd want to pay someone else to maintain it.

Take a look at this thread from earlier in the year that covered this topic:  https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/is-an-e39-5406-all-ive-built-it-up-to-be/245788/page1/

As far as the reliability goes, this is one of those "buy the owner" things.  The original owner likely had the budget and inclination to do the maintenance properly, but if the car got traded around multiple times then each successive owner was paying less and less for it and was likely less inclined to keep up with things.  Maintenance doesn't get cheaper just because the car has depreciated, after all.

Depends largely on what role you use it for.

Sedate DD? a 540 is 90% of an M5

Track star? a 540 is 20% of an M5

Any use case in the middle will be somewhere in between those numbers

My bolt on 540i/6 is one of the more sublime cars I've ever owned. An M5 would be way cooler and equally usable with a reasonable increase in maintenance headache. 

get out of my mind - I was just thinking this. 

on a related note, is there any BAD M5s? (not speaking about condition/basket case but in general) are there any gens to avoid? It seems only the bad ones are the ones you can't afford. 

F series okay?

E39/E60???

this model seemingly has always missed the "avoid model year XXXX" issue, they just always seem to be kick ass cars no matter the year. 

fidelity101 said:

on a related note, is there any BAD M5s? (not speaking about condition/basket case but in general) are there any gens to avoid? It seems only the bad ones are the ones you can't afford. 

I've never driven any M5 of any sort, so this is all hearsay:

I'm told the E60 is not great.  The V10 is cool but was designed to be used with the SMG, which has all of the expected SMG deficiencies, and when they hastily engineered a manual for the US market it supposedly wasn't a great fit either.

The F90 is slushbox only which is a big disappointment, IMHO.  That said, it's ungodly fast.  I know someone who was doing 135 under the bridge at Laguna Seca in one at his first-ever track day.

I spent about 45 min behind the wheel of an e39M5 and it was like putting a split personality professional fighter in a suit with some wrestling shoes. This was shortly after no longer owning a Evo X GSR, I thought it was way more fun. Where the Evo ran out of steam the M5 pulled harder, where the Evo goes through a corner like a figure skater the M5 did it with the aggression of a hockey player. I loved every part of it. It was a $14,000 car and I should have bought it. 

I also drove a modded E60M5 and the sound was nuts but the that's the only thing it did better than the E39. 

If I had the money for any BMW it would most definitely be a E39M5. 

The price of the 540/6 is why I don't own one.  That's what I was shopping for when I bought the E38.  The 540/6 vs M5 price spread was still a bit bigger then (so a decent M5 was out of budget).  But I eventually decided that finding a good 540/6 was a challenge, and most were pretty expensive for what they were.  Ended up with the E38 on the logic of the 740i sport being only slightly more expensive than a 540i auto, but a more interesting car. 

The E39 M5 is a pretty reliable workhorse. The E60 makes sex noises but is frustrating like rod bearings are a maintenance item frustrating. The S63 twin turbo engines are frightening and incredible in equal measure. 

I would bet that my e39 530i M-sport was probably a bit closer to the M5 than a 540, which had the parallelogram-ish steering instead of a rack.  Power was decent, and the suspension held the not-so-modernly big 235s to the ground at limits very well.  Sport shift (yes, auto) worked pretty good, too.  The engine did not much like exceeding 5500 rpms after a bit, though . . .

fidelity101 said:

on a related note, is there any BAD M5s? (not speaking about condition/basket case but in general) are there any gens to avoid? It seems only the bad ones are the ones you can't afford. 

 

F series okay?

E39/E60???

They are wonderful cars but parts supply is starting to become a real problem for the E28 and E34 M5s with the M88 or S38 engine.

There must be some movie that came out recently starring an e39 with all of these 540i posts lately. 

Buy the 530i or the m5. One you will get 90% of the 540i with 40% of the maintenance. The other will cost you 100% more than the 540i but will give you 30% more of everything with 90% of the maintenance. 

In reply to Olemiss540 :

I owned two 528is and have driven a few 540is, would go for a 528i or 530i every time. Honestly if I ever have the time and space I would love to put a S52 in a 528i, seems like the perfect combo to me. The six cylinder cars are so much lighter on their feet and there is less of a performance deficit than you'd expect in real world driving.

Oh, and working on the six cylinder cars is less likely to result in alcoholism.

In reply to Olemiss540 :

Well, that is mostly my fault. 

I think I have a few threads on them within the past few weeks. My sister to own one isn't a new thing, but me having a midlife crisis is! 

This is worth watching if you've never seen it. I remember getting a DVD from BMW at the autoshow one year with all of these on them. 

In reply to adam525i :

Can't say how many times I've watched that, but it is many. That short film, and this Top Gear clip, is realistically where this whole lustful relationship started.

https://youtu.be/agKyva3fIkI?si=EgwhjKBVUS1Gkdhd

Steve said:

In reply to adam525i :

Can't say how many times I've watched that, but it is many. That short film, and this Top Gear clip, is realistically where this whole lustful relationship started.

https://youtu.be/agKyva3fIkI?si=EgwhjKBVUS1Gkdhd

Sounds like somebody is shopping for an M5! 

get the best shell you can find. I've done jacking points and big sill patches on my e39 and there is so much factory wax and foam everywhere that it's a nightmare. Everything else is a bolt on.  

The M5 rear ARB makes a huge difference to the handling, but they bolt onto any spec car. I6s have way nicer steering.   If you can find a perfect M5 then it should appreciate and would be worth buying. Otherwise I'd look for a manual I6 car with an LS swap