How to adjust your seat for racing.

Dale Earnhardt used to spend an hour or more adjusting his seat in a new race car.  When you're fractions of an inch away from contact at 200+ mph MPH. Your sight picture is hyper critical.  
     Vintage racing has the No contact rule and again your sight picture  is critical.  Slamming into Uber expensive cars is just not allowed.  In fact it doesn't have to be  hard contact.  Any contact will be punished. Some modest value cars are someone's pride and joy. They aren't there to trade paint. 
      Sight picture again helps in Autocross. If you have to guess where your fender is  in relation to a cone you're going leave some time rather kick the cone for a penalty. Those tiny fractions of a second are what hurts. 
    How?  Sit in your seat. Can you plainly see all your fenders without leaning, raising up in your seat,  imagine you're in close quarters at full speed. Are you confident enough  of your sight picture to blast safely through that opening?  Because you may not get another chance.   
Remember the car /cone you pass may be lower than your fenders. It may be a situation that develops in the corner.  He may be pushing ( under steering) or loose. Spinning out, dodging another car or object.  
    You have that fraction of a second to determine your action.  It might not be lock it down.  Or swerve. Or it might be.  Or a combination. Unless you can see chances are you will be involved.  
The natural inclination is to get as low as you can and as far back. But then due to the poor sight picture the only way to safely pass another car is to sit back and wait for the big hole to open and stay open.  

The racing stuff is fair, but if you're looking at your fenders while autocrossing you've already lost. Seating position is super important though, I regularly see people at autocrosses barely able to reach the steering wheel while sitting in grid, actually driving the course has got to be "interesting" for them.

Okay so how do you adjust the seat?

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

There's usually knobs, levers or buttons somewhere. Start pulling, pushing twisting, pumping until things start to happen lol

dps214 said:

The racing stuff is fair, but if you're looking at your fenders while autocrossing you've already lost. Seating position is super important though, I regularly see people at autocrosses barely able to reach the steering wheel while sitting in grid, actually driving the course has got to be "interesting" for them.

I fully accept that comment about autocross.  I've only done one  in my life and I'm afraid   beating Sterling Moss and Bobby Rahal  among others has given me a big head. I'm sorry. 
     

I've autocross and road race both my cars.

In the Datsun I have the seat as low as it will go and the seat is a bit forward, as I spend a lot of time sawing at the wheel and sitting closer to the wheeI is an advantage. The car is very physical to drive fast. I cannot see the passenger side fender but the hood pin sticks up just enough to guide you. I've raced this car for 32 years now so I can place it inch perfect.

The F500 is a semi lay down car but I've spent a lot of time on the seating position. Sitting more upright might be a slight advantage for the sight lines at autocross but not from a performance standpoint. 

As the human torso and head is 60% of your  body weight, dropping it is a a big advantage. For instance in the Datsun I dropped the seat 3 inches, in my case that's  85lbs and it made a difference in the handling.

In reply to adam525i :

For racing, wheel to wheel  you shouldn't have adjustment. Chances are they have too much slop and likely won't get you where you need to be.   
  Chances are you need to be more vertical, perhaps higher up than you traditionally drive.  That's about those sight lines I've mentioned. 

adam525i said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

There's usually knobs, levers or buttons somewhere. Start pulling, pushing twisting, pumping until things start to happen lol

Not in a race car and there is a lot of race car talk in this thread.  This thread should be called where I prefer to have my seat for sight lines.  So far zero talk about actually adjusting seats. 

In reply to frenchyd :

My attitude is sight lines be damned; any decent driver can adapt. Like I said the Datsun seat is very low yet I can place it easily at autocross. 

My F500 uses a sports car nose so when you are in the car you can't see the leading 6 inches of the car. It took all of half a run to adapt to the car as far as placement went. 

We're not talking about taping off half the windshield here. Having the driver lower will make a bigger difference than a slightly better sight line will. If that weren't the case we wouldn't have cars with lay down driving positions.

Tom1200 said:

I've autocross and road race both my cars.

In the Datsun I have the seat as low as it will go and the seat is a bit forward, as I spend a lot of time sawing at the wheel and sitting closer to the wheeI is an advantage. The car is very physical to drive fast. I cannot see the passenger side fender but the hood pin sticks up just enough to guide you. I've raced this car for 32 years now so I can place it inch perfect.

The F500 is a semi lay down car but I've spent a lot of time on the seating position. Sitting more upright might be a slight advantage for the sight lines at autocross but not from a performance standpoint. 

As the human torso and head is 60% of your  body weight, dropping it is a a big advantage. For instance in the Datsun I dropped the seat 3 inches, in my case that's  85lbs and it made a difference in the handling.

That's the temptation, trade sight lines for perceived handling changes.   The lower you are the more secure  ( confident ) which tends to make you faster.   
  I wish I could do back to back to see which nets more. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

adam525i said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

There's usually knobs, levers or buttons somewhere. Start pulling, pushing twisting, pumping until things start to happen lol

Not in a race car and there is a lot of race car talk in this thread.  This thread should be called where I prefer to have my seat for sight lines.  So far zero talk about actually adjusting seats. 

You want to know how to adjust your  seat? Tell me how tall you are from your butt checks to your eyeballs. 
In other words exact details for each person are impossible.  Once you accept the goals.  You'll figure how to properly adjust your seat.  
   Remember Dale Earnhardt spent a lot of time getting the seat just right. In fact several very good racers I knew did too.  
     
I didn't start out that way.  I started out thinking sitting low and back as far as possible was fastest. It took years for me to understand there is more to winning than just trying to go faster. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I can't remember where I read it, Motorsport maybe, but Prost was unconvinced that a lay down car was the way to go. This was down to the limited visibility, what changed his mind was seeing how much faster Senna was in the lay down car.

I'm no engineer; so I don't know what the effect of lowering 85lbs 3 inches was on the CG for a 1600lb car is but again from the drivers seat it was noticeable. I've run this car for 31 years so I'm pretty in tune with changes. It was most noticeable in left handers.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I've sat in a formula 1. I was too tall (5'9" )  and too big to fit properly. However as low as I was I was more reclined than laying down.  At that I was blind except for directly ahead  and around the tires.  Pulling up on the steering wheel I still couldn't see over the tires. At least I knew exactly where they were. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Okay so how do you adjust the seat?

Thats part 2 for the tiktok series.

Your legs should allow you to put your feet to the firewall just short of locking your knees*. But you Butt has to fully back into your seat.  
* aside from proper feel of the pedals locking your knee when they are fully extended prevents input from your feet.  Those who've served in the military know what happens then. 
   Also in the event of a collision, you're less likely to break your legs if they are slightly bent.  
     

The next area is seat back angle. For your arms.
   Aside from not locking your elbows if your arms are straight forward.  Here there is too much personal taste and application.  Some cars require you to put your shoulder into the wheel. Others only need a slight flick of the wrist. 
But you cannot give up your sight lines.  

frenchyd said:

The next area is seat back angle. For your arms.
   Aside from not locking your elbows if your arms are straight forward.  Here there is too much personal taste and application.  Some cars require you to put your shoulder into the wheel. Others only need a slight flick of the wrist. 
But you cannot give up your sight lines.  

Now you are finally talking about seating position instead of writing essays on how long Dale spent adjusting his seat position.

I prefer to be knees bent, sitting upright, elbows bent hands at 9:30 and 2:30, able to easily push the clutch to the floor without flexing or reaching with my foot stretched, then adjust for sighting around the pillars.  Some cars have terrible sight lines no matter what though, think 4th gen Camaro.  
 

Adjusting a race seat to get there takes lots of trial and error.  In the MR2, I just acquired, this is going to take a lot of work.  

I have a Schroth 4 point harness for autox in my car. I have to bring my seat forward 1-2 notches in order to reach the clutch and wheel comfortably when I'm strapped in. 

Sight lines are secondary, what matters more is that I can rotate my steering wheel and use the clutch properly. Safety first.

Other than that, I want to sit as low as possible in my seat. Quite literally any car I sit in I adjust the seat all the way down, I'm not even that tall but it just makes the driving experience more comfortable. 

frenchyd said:

Can you plainly see all your fenders without leaning, raising up in your seat,  

I'm stuck trying to wrap my head around this one... While this may work on something with a long nose and prominent fenders, like a classic Jag, I don't see how this can actually be applied to many (most?) modern cars. With even my unhelmeted head pressed firmly against the roof, I still cannot 'plainly see' ANY of my fenders. 

My $.02

For me it starts with my non adjustable petals, I move the seat forward until I can easily depress them all the way comfortably while also not lifting my thigh too much to fully release them.  This is usually a bit more forward than I would be for street driving.  

The next step is where my Co-drivers and I disagree.  I prefer to have a more upright position mostly so my elbows are bent and preferably close to my torso, the further my reach is the less control I have over my limbs.  Think about how you would hold a 25lb round weight in front of you while trying to load it on a lifting bar, do you hold it out with stretched arms or close to your body for control.   This also improves sight lines.

I like upright boxy cars though, E30, Fox chassis, my current S197 Mustang, they all have prominent fenders and work well with my preferred upright position.   Sight lines are secondary to me after being in the position the gives me the most control over my inputs.   After that it's getting used to where the wheels are in relation to my position and sight lines, usually by using curbing. 

In reply to Driven5 :

This is how I felt driving my friends 97 camaro, Hey where are your fenders.

Driven5 said:

frenchyd said:

Can you plainly see all your fenders without leaning, raising up in your seat,  

I'm stuck trying to wrap my head around this one... While this may work on something with a long nose and prominent fenders, like a classic Jag, I don't see how this can actually be applied to many (most?) modern cars. With even my unhelmeted head pressed firmly against the roof, I still cannot 'plainly see' ANY of my fenders. 

If you're guessing where your fenders are and racing in a no contact race (13/13 rule)  you have to give yourself more room.  That extra bit might prevent a safe pass.   
Example; your competitor has an acceleration advantage  but you have a cornering advantage.  You can't risk a pass entering the corner for fear of contact and he will out accelerate you every place else on the track. You will follow him home.  
    If you can see it's safe to make the pass  then the two of you can have a fun dice all race long, passing each other back and forth. 
 

akylekoz said:

My $.02

For me it starts with my non adjustable petals, I move the seat forward until I can easily depress them all the way comfortably while also not lifting my thigh too much to fully release them.  This is usually a bit more forward than I would be for street driving.  

The next step is where my Co-drivers and I disagree.  I prefer to have a more upright position mostly so my elbows are bent and preferably close to my torso, the further my reach is the less control I have over my limbs.  Think about how you would hold a 25lb round weight in front of you while trying to load it on a lifting bar, do you hold it out with stretched arms or close to your body for control.   This also improves sight lines.

I like upright boxy cars though, E30, Fox chassis, my current S197 Mustang, they all have prominent fenders and work well with my preferred upright position.   Sight lines are secondary to me after being in the position the gives me the most control over my inputs.   After that it's getting used to where the wheels are in relation to my position and sight lines, usually by using curbing. 

 I prefer arms out driving,  that stretched out position gives me a more accurate sense of traction and angle. Allowing me to be closer to the edge. 
However, saying that I find myself more upright when dicing in tight quarters. Using the steering wheel to pull me up out of the seat leaves me feeling less planted in the car.  So I decide which sort of race I'm in before the event.  A dicing race or a speed race. And adjust my position accordingly.  I use a wedge insert for the dice version.  Plywood, foam and covering. Homemade. 

Here's what I teach in DE. We use reference points. These are spots on the car that line up with targets or landmarks in the environment. I don't need to see my bumpers, fenders, or tires to know where I am. I can sight along my windshield, use the side mirrors to know where the nose of the car is, and look over my shoulders to discover at what point backing up should stop. I do the same at the track or while autocrossing. As others have said if you are looking at your fenders you're already slow. You should be looking ahead with your central vision (the narrow 5-7 degrees of your sight that recognizes detail, color, shape) and deciding on your line ahead allowing your fringe vision (that 30-35 degrees from center where images aren't in perfect focus but recognizable) to help you keep your line. If you like I can share the presentation I use.

As difficult as it is to understand,  when you're wheel to wheel at say 150 mph you're going slow ( relative to each other), that's where inches, fractions of inches matter.  
    Again the 13/13 rule means no contact.  But close doesn't count as contact. Only contact counts.  
 Now granted you need to have a comfort factor in those situations  to know the person you're dicing with is trustworthy and skilled enough not to make a mistake.  And you need to have those same traits.  
   The harder issue is a rapidly changing event. An opening that may be closing for example. Is it safe to take that developing opening or do you risk contact?  That's more about judgement and skill than reference points.  
 Remembering the cost of contact is not just the penalty you may receive but also damage to a piece of history and the physical risk to those involved.  
     The history of vintage cars has already been written, and whatever happens with that pass or attempt at a pass won't change it or get you noticed by the Ferrari Formula 1 team.  
    Yet the real fun can be friends dicing for position. Exhibiting sportsmanship. Dicing right up to the checkered flag.