WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing HalfDork
5/15/16 4:04 p.m.

Assume the following set of conditions:

FWD, MacStrut, 2550ish lb with driver.

About 300 lb/in spring rate, damper valving is acceptable

Rear sway bar is about 300% stiffer than OEM bar (if I read the chart correctly, 19mm vs. 13mm)

About 1.5 inch lowered ride hight

Running BFG Sport Comp-2 in 195/55-15, so far seems to be a good traction match with the springs for re-learning my skills at open track sessions.

front camber is -2*.

Per a BFG rep who has tracked this tire and taken readings, the Comp-2 developes best traction between about 140F and 185F and turns greasy at about 200ish F, and about 42psi hot pressure. I will not be over-driving the tires (at least not on every corner, every lap)

My question revolves around a hot pressure that strikes a balance between best cornering grip and most even front tire wear, given the above conditions. Particularly the -2* camber. For now, I am more interested in not trashing the outside shoulder before the rest of the tire, BUT I'm not sure how much training benefit there will be if the car starts to plow more from increasing the pressure above optimum to reduce sidewall rollover, and... I call upon the Hive's collective FWD track experience to stop my over-thinking this issue. HALLLP!

mazdeuce
mazdeuce UltimaDork
5/15/16 4:47 p.m.

You need a pyrometer.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
5/15/16 5:09 p.m.

The lowering may have some effect.

reduce roll.

2.5/3 degrees negative camber.

0 toe out.

Pyrometer is the best way to check pressure.

If you tire manufacturer gives recommended pressures, start there.

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing HalfDork
5/15/16 5:55 p.m.
iceracer wrote: The lowering may have some effect. reduce roll. 2.5/3 degrees negative camber. 0 toe out. Pyrometer is the best way to check pressure. If you tire manufacturer gives recommended pressures, start there.

The thing is, -2 is all it gets without camber plates. Once my driving gets as fast and consistent as the current setup can go, I will be going with 200 treadwear SCCA (and Hallett COMMA) legal stickies, and racing rate coilovers with camber plates. But, until I step up the setup, -2 is it. I guess, while I'm re-building my skill set, I'm trying to figure if the greater value is total tire life at the potential cost of increased understeer from higher pressure, or better front end grip (and cornering balance) at the cost of wearing out the outside shoulder at optimum pressure. Hellz, with only -2 it might actually be faster with higher pressure because less rollover... Mostly I want the best training and practice I can get with the current setup. Maybe I should just start at the 42 psi, keep checking the tread depth gauge, and add pressure until either the wear evens out or it plows too much. Am I making any sense?

chuckles
chuckles HalfDork
5/15/16 6:30 p.m.

I'm betting that you will be able to avoid sidewall rollover at a reasonable (not too high) pressure.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce UltimaDork
5/15/16 7:08 p.m.

You're over thinking it. If -2 is your max then you will wear the outside shoulder if you're driving hard enough to learn things, ie, make mistakes every now and again.
You have two tools, your eyes to read wear, and a pyrometer to try your best and set pressures. After that you're going to be rotating front to back at the track and flipping tires on wheels during their lives. The only way you can avoid excessive shoulder wear is to drive gently enough that you won't be progressing as a driver. It is what it is, go have fun.

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing HalfDork
5/15/16 8:45 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce:

I had a feeling I was overthinking! And yeah, 60-odd bucks to flip and re-balance the tires is a better value.

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing HalfDork
5/15/16 9:57 p.m.
chuckles wrote: I'm betting that you will be able to avoid sidewall rollover at a reasonable (not too high) pressure.

Hi Alston good to hear from you! Your Cobalt looked to have around -2 front, also. How even was your front wear after Hallett? And, what front pressure were you running?

chuckles
chuckles HalfDork
5/15/16 10:19 p.m.

In reply to WildScotsRacing: PM sent.

ross2004
ross2004 Reader
5/16/16 8:49 a.m.

Slot the strut towers for more camber?

Huckleberry
Huckleberry MegaDork
5/16/16 8:52 a.m.

Don't turn!

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing HalfDork
5/16/16 8:55 a.m.
ross2004 wrote: Slot the strut towers for more camber?

Don't want to do that. Once I get my skills back up to par, I'll be installing high-rate coilovers with camber plates, and I'll want the ability to precisley index the camber plates so can change the camber as needed and know precisely what that change is.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
5/16/16 8:58 a.m.
ross2004 wrote: Slot the strut towers for more camber?

enlarge or slot the upper mounting hole on the strut.

then there is the old , loosen push pull method.

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing HalfDork
5/16/16 8:59 a.m.
Huckleberry wrote: Don't turn!

Hah! Fastest way around a corner is to make it as long as possible, isn't it! Actually, Chuckles reminded me to just work on my driving to get the back end to rotate the car through a corner and get though rear tires to share more of the cornering load.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Reader
5/16/16 9:15 a.m.

My solution with a similar situation but RWD instead: -3.5 degrees camber, big front bar, lowish spring rates (350f, 475r) and rear bar sized to keep handling neutral. going to a larger front bar, up to a point, actually decreased understeer in my situation due to maintaining a better contact patch.

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
3kK1dLfxpiqoVlI7MJkADa8h0zIA0QLuZL1hw5VI9Cf9nn87lZ24lZQwKf3Zr20z